Time Enough for Love

[erastes]

Over the past couple of weeks I've had reviews for Frost Fair which have said similar things, that the characters were hard to empathise with, that the story was too short, that Gideon was too cold. It's always hard to get reviews like that, although

the reviews had nothing but praise for the writing and they all loved Mordecai, too.  I think it shows to me that perhaps I'm not really right for novellas, and that maybe I'm shoving a quart into a pint pot, as they say. There was a lot more, for example, to Chiaroscuro than was in the novella. It was destined to be a full-sized novel, but I'd stalled at about 20k words. Then I saw the call on MLR Press and decided to shape it accordingly and submit it to them. Consequently more than one reviewer said they felt it was too short.

I'm not--as you probably know by now--a writer who jumps in with the action, and my builds up and layering work for too many chapters for a novella, I imagine, and by the time I've explained who HE is and then who HE is and what the conflict is, and found a secondary character or two, there's not enough time to successfully pull off a convincing and passionate relationship.  That being said, though--the relationship in FF isn't the same depth as Standish. I never had any doubt--no matter how wrong they were for each other--that Rafe and Ambrose loved each other furiously, truly, madly, deeply etc. It's not the same for Gideon and Joshua though, it was tentative, even at the end. I know some people have said it wasn't passionate enough--but that was deliberate.

I'm pushing ahead with Mere Mortals, and I was just thinking "nothing's really happened" and then I realised that I still had 80k words or so to go, so there wasn't any hurry, and if character A wants to sit there and stare at character B's long slender fingers as they edge the rim of his wine glass FOR AN ENTIRE PAGE, then it was ok.  Because it's a novel. And hopefully will be full of passion. At some point. No hurry.

Comments

[dubious-virtue.livejournal.com]

I applaud your ability to allow your stories to unfold at their own pace. We hear again and again how the attention span of the modern reader won't allow for a slow unfolding, and we must start every book in the midst of the life-altering crisis and go break-neck from there...and yet Jane Austen and Dickens are still selling, are they not?

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I suppose part of it is that I write historical and, for the most part, life was slower. That was rather part of the difference with Frost Fair, Gideon wasn't a rich man, and his life was a lot more frantic than other characters than I'd written, short life expectancy, I would imagine.

I can't imagine starting in the middle of a story--other than all stories start in the middle of someone's stories, I suppose.

Transgressions is more of an instant beginning than Standish, I suppose, I don't spend an entire 2 chapters explaining everything at least!

:)

[aphephobia.livejournal.com]

I'm looking forward to it. (I ordered it just after finishing Standish.) Sometimes relationships are tentative and aren't all intense and passionate and all the rest of it, and it's nice to see those people written about, too.

[crawling-angel.livejournal.com]

I heard your words too. I've written nearly 23K and my characters are about to fall into bed...but I still don't think they're ready for it. My word count was initially 20K but now I've thought further ahead even 30K isn't looking like the ending will be in sight, lol.

You layer all you want. *plays pass the parcel with you*

[storm-grant.livejournal.com]

I *like* a story that unfolds slowly. (I wrote a whole rant here, but decided I'd really made my point in the first sentence. ;-D)

[mallorypath.livejournal.com]

Today seems to be a day for self-revelations; this is the second post in three I've read that involves a writerly realization!

It's not the same for Gideon and Joshua though, it was tentative, even at the end. I know some people have said it wasn't passionate enough--but that was deliberate.

Actually, this intrigues me at least as much as a tale of mad and undeniable passion. But I've mused elsewhere on my lack of commercial instincts. *wry grin*

[erastes.livejournal.com]

well i hope you will be brave enough to tell me what you think of it - I'm not hurt by the reviews - they've been very encouraging about the writing, and that's the main thing, but I've had "i couldn't connect" with the characters a couple of times now, in fact more than a couple, so it's obviously something I need to keep an eye on. Thank you for ordering it!

[erastes.livejournal.com]

aw! cheated out of a rant! *snugs*

[erastes.livejournal.com]

That's very true. I don't has the commercial instincts either, but then I write for me!

[erastes.livejournal.com]

*laughs* It was in Hard and Fast that I had that problem, I was shouting "KISS EACH OTHER OR SOMETHING, WILL YOU???" but all they wanted to do was to be witty instead. Just as sexy, but frustrating!!

[storm-grant.livejournal.com]

I remember reading Michener's bestseller, Hawaii, back in the 70s? 80s? It began with the coral polyps that formed the islands. And I liked it.

Sorry Joseph Campbell, but The Hero's Journey has, apparently, been re-written by short-sighted publishers. It no longer begins "in the real world" and they've eliminated that pesky "crossing of the threshold". We're just dropped into the action with no idea who the hero is or what s/he's doing or where the plucky sidekick came from. *I like* a little backstory upfront.

And don't get me started on couples who fall in love or worse, go from hate to love, in less than 4 paragraphs!

Well, not as ranty as the first one, but still pretty ranty for this non-combative Canadian. ;-D

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I never read Hawaii, but I remember my mother telling me that it took a huge chunk of the book for any people even to show up! :)

I agree - it's possible/probable that one day I'll start a story with a homosexual being hounded through the streets in fear of his life but not just yet, I think. I like short stories more for that kind of immediacy!

[feed-your-muse.livejournal.com]

I can sympathise. My short story of 6k is now at almost 11k and there's probably about another 2-3k to go, but Konstantin and Ashe just weren't following the plan. Dammit. ;o) I like the idea of writing short, but so far my effort outweighs my achievement (as old report cards used to say!)


Merry

=^..^=

[lee-rowan.livejournal.com]

I think that too many stories are written as though they're on television-- and too many readers expect 'a movie in the head'--when in fact one of the things about a book--one of the best things about a book--is that you can do things in the reader's imagination that you can't do on a screen with the best FX.

Also, one of the best things about the romance genre is that it's got a lot of very loyal readers. One of the less wonderful things, though, is that some of those readers expect a particular style, a particular content (witness the recent discussion of m/m vs menage), and if they don't get it they are very upset. I admit I've got my turnoffs--anyone harming an animal just to show the bad guy is Teh Evol is one--but inflexible expectations mean that if Gideon doesn't fall head-over-heels, I Shall Die Without Him! in love, he's 'cold.'

Well, so? He's had a very hard life, he knows nothing is certain, I don't think he really expects happiness, and he's guarded. He is, in fact, very believable for his time. My sailors are more intense because they pretty much expect to be blown to bits at any moment; anxieties only start to creep in after they've survived a few near misses and get used to enjoying being alive (and each other).

For what it's worth, I thought Frost Fair's atmosphere was very much in tune with the title, but if someone picked it up expecting Hard & Fast on Ice, they were bound to be disappointed. And there's no way any writer can meet everybody's expectations.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

*chortling at Hard and Fast on Ice*

I didn't really mean to whine--the reviews have been very positive, but I do want to stamp out the "i found it difficult to connect with the character" if it's at all possible for me to improve my characterisation.

the loyal readers are one reason I worry about Trans. I think they are going to dislike the dark of it. I should recommend everyone to go and watch The Devil's Whore before reading!

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Don't you just hate it when they do their own thing? Good luck with it, dear!

[lee-rowan.livejournal.com]

Folks who first read Standish or Chiaroscuro will probably not be startled. I hate religious sexual obsessives and I don't care for the hang-draw-&-quarter/Spanish Inquisition periods at all, so I'll probably read it early in the day, not at bedtime.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Good plan! :)

[kittymay.livejournal.com]

I'm looking forward to the darkness. And I like your Heinlein reference too.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

one hopefully favourable review then. :) And "Time" is my favourite book of the entire universe.

[the-sea-to.livejournal.com]

1. I LOVE THE ICON.

2. You are an onion person, you layer. I want to read FF to comment (I have standish on holiday with me so i can read it again).

I'm really like writing DRM because I've not set myself a word limit. I figure it will end up being about 100k, maybe a bit more depending on what happens next.

Oh, and I found something else interesting out. MacMillian has a branch where you can do direct submissions of your first novel only (sorry, they don't do previous publications) but as this is the company that does the Shardlake novels (gay priests appear) I figure fuck it, worth a gamble if it comes out okayish. Why not? (besides the 12week submission time thingy)

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Gay priests? Titles please!!!!

Yes, something like that is well worth a gamble. And of course I'm more than happy to help you with submissions when you are ready!

12 weeks is nothing. *glum*

IT'S SNOWING!!!!

[kittymay.livejournal.com]

then you have fine taste.

I wish you could review on Amazon without having had to buy the book in question
from there. I understand why they do this, but is a shame for those who would have liked to but bought the ebook instead.

(meaning Frost Fair)

[the-sea-to.livejournal.com]

will get you them when home - i am here :( they tend otr have gay people randomly murdered which is not so good. however, needs must.

you are my genius god type person. i will be relying heavily on your advice.

12 weeks is scary. This idea of no simultaneous submissions is worse.

it is scarily sunny here. SNOW! WOO!

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I agree with you, I have to limit my reviews to the UK site because I don't have a credit card and haven't bought from Amazon USA.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I never take much notice of no simultaneous submissions, after all if you get two offers, then W00t! you can simply choose the best one. However, if it's a "competition format" then you are tied in, nod nod.

Never pay an entry fee though.

[kittymay.livejournal.com]

they tend to have gay people randomly murdered which is not so good. however, needs must.

!!

*backs away*

[emlynley.livejournal.com]

I feel your pain over this. I'm like you and enjoy thinking of and writing he details, and readers love that too, based on comments I've gotten. The problem is all on the story length issue. I just wrote a 30k novella that felt bare-bones and a bit rushed, but I wanted to keep under the max length guideline for the call. I subbed it but I'm fleshing it out to what feels right for me while I'm waiting, and if they reject it, I have a better version to sub elsewhere... oops digression. Sorry!

Back to my main point, which is that after that experience I realized that I need to write the story as it flows, and then after it's done, figure out who to sub it to. Trying to fit my story to the guidelines didn't feel right. And it sounds like maybe that's how you feel too. Short pieces just don't have room for the details or even a subplot. It's basically boy meets boy, boys have some conflict, boys figure it out and get together. I admit I haven't really liked the shorter things I've read because there wasn't enough depth to the story or the characters, though I'm sure there are lots of good shorter pieces; I just haven't found them yet...

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Nod, I think that was part of the problem with FF - as you say, boy meets boy, conflict, resolve, HEA. Not enough time for lingering glances etc etc.