You wouldn’t like me when I’m angry

[erastes]

GRRRR….

I swear if I hear the phrase “as a historian….” ONE MORE TIME as a prelude to someone being smackingly patronising and “better than thou” I am going to chuck my PC in the skip and start writing with a quill. 

Over on the Historical Novel Society yahoo group, someone asked a very sensible question about historical facts or theories that change, as we all know they do.  What she said was should she change her work to the newly accepted theory regarding how her protagonist died, or stick with the old theory?  Sadly this point was almost entirely ignored as people dragged out the whole “historical accuracy vs THE DEVIL” argument and lo and behold one person in particular HAD to tell the whole world that they were not only a historian – BUT A LIVING HISTORIAN.  (as opposed to what, I really don’t know.)

Listen to me, you people.  Having a degree (and this might be a shock to you, so you might want to sit down) simply means you studied for a subject and passed an exam.  It doesn’t necessarily follow that 1. You know more about history (even the period you specialise in) than the person you are patronising, 2. You are more intelligent than others, no matter how often you tell them you are  and 3. Entitles you to ANY kind of special treatment and 4.  It makes you a better person in any aspect.  In fact, in my opinion, if you’ve had to drag “I’ve got xxxx degrees in xxx” into any discussion, then you’ve already lost it.

You’d think that after six or so years on LJ and elsewhere, I’d lose my capacity to be surprised at the inanities people will wank over, but I never get used to it.  Some people seem completely incapable of playing nicely with others, yesterday I saw instances of people leaving yahoo groups because they didn’t like the people they were in the group with, and people, who weren’t getting “OMG YOU ARE A HISTORIAN?  THEN YOU MUST BE RIGHT” responses, unsubscribing in a childish sulk.

I’ve often been cowed by these people, and there have been times when I wish I could put “Erastes read Super Smashing History at Terribly Posh College” on the back of my books but GAH. If it meant that I’d turn into someone who trots out their piece of paper to shit on people’s heads, then I’m glad I don’t.

In other depressing news – I hear Ugly Betty is cancelled, and the wonderful Bryan Batt isn’t being returned for Mad Men series 4. It makes sense for the story, of course, but I’ll miss him a lot.

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Comments

[vashtan.livejournal.com]

I try not to drag my summa cum laude degree in medieval history into any kind of discussion (so sorry if I've ever affronted you like that :) ). But it's probably true that I know more than almost everybody about how EXACTLY the Lombard kingdom was subsumed into Charlemagne's empire. Except, of course, 2 professors who worked on the topic.

Thing is, nobody cares about that tiny sliver of history that's mine.

"As a historian" really only means I have a "working knowledge" and a specialist library at home. I have a general understanding. I don't know all the facts, and more often than not, I have to check stuff against my own memory, because I have a terrible memory.

So, as a historian, I don't feel the need to wave my dick around. I'm glad people *are* interested enough in history to care. Seems to be rarer and rarer these days.

[cassiopaya.livejournal.com]

Well, as an alive historian who has read everything about everything and went to a college where I got a degree I can honestly say that I am a better person than you because unlike you I can rise above the wank.

< /facetiousness >

Wow. I'm still shocked that yahoo groups are a viable internet communication format.

::huggles::

[mylodon.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm a biologist. Which means that long ago and far away I did somethings about various parts of living animals. Some of it I remember, some I don't and some I have always 'busked'.

What it means in practice is

a) I take much of what I hear scientists say with a pinch of salt because they get things wrong and, as you say, theories evolve.

b) I get ridiculously excited over stupid things like phosphodiester bonds. Don't know a lot about them, but they make me squee.

c) I take historians with even more of a pinch of salt - as they do on Time Team. when all else fails, say it's "ritual" and you'll look clever.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

The thing is I don't see why historians need to qualify their qualification in discussions and they do it all the time on writing groups, and it's always meant as a smackdown. They are rarely "I have a degree in 'xx era' it's just a general history degree. You do have a specialist degree - and you felt the need to point it out too!! :)

Your point kind of clarifies it, because I don't believe that anyone knows more than anyone else, certainly not one as young as you - there are bound to be others with more indepth knowledge, but perhaps they didn't bother to go to university, but they've been studying on a personal level all their life. My uncle for example was amazingly knowledgable about Gladstone and could probably have discussed the matter with any university professor, but never did - he was just a Gladstone geek.

[chris-smith-atr.livejournal.com]

Were the animals called "rugby players"?

[erastes.livejournal.com]

You are better than me. * weep *

Even my grammar sucks.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Yes - and on Time Team their knowledge makes them PSYCHIC. They can look at a sliver of pot and know what the villa looked like.

I don't have an 'ology.'

[alex-beecroft.livejournal.com]

As a philosopher I'm constantly annoyed at the way people don't seem to know how to construct logical arguments these days but have to resort to fallacies like the appeal to their authority as a historian.

Oh, whoops....

[erastes.livejournal.com]

As an astrologer I shall smite them with Uranus.

[chris-smith-atr.livejournal.com]

Well said. Frankly I think that if you feel you require a public clarification of your reasons or qualifications to talk about any topic, let alone a work of fiction, it says a lot more about your personal insecurities than anything else.

I love writing. I enjoy the research. But I'm not going to shout that I'm a world expert in anything (even the really strange things in which I could pretend to be) because I don't feel the need, nor do I think readers really care. It's up to the author to determine how accurate they wish to be, and the agents, editors, and readers to decide the sellability of the work.

Frankly, the stuff I've read recently by "historians" (and i'm talking mainstream prizewinning, bestselling stuff) has things like people in 1066 jumping off and on horses at age 50, turbopowered horses that can do 8 hours gallop without a rest and still be fresh as a daisy, and a person in the 1200's who was (at age 75) pondering the joys of reaching 85.

If that is what "historians" write, I'm damn glad all I really care about is a rollicking good read.

[chris-smith-atr.livejournal.com]

As an architect, I demand erections!

[chris-smith-atr.livejournal.com]

perv-ology?

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Absolutely. I've read stuff like that too, where the back blurb waxes lyrical about the degrees and job qualifications the person has, and then I'm jarred out of the first page because there's a sabre in 17th century England. (not real example)

In fact the only book where I was impressed by BOTH the qualifications and the book is the one I'm reading now - The Lunatic, the Lover and the Poet by Myrlin Hermes - she's touted to be an expert in Shakespeare and the sonnets and omg she so is. You know that episode of Dr Who with Shakespeare? Well it's a bit like that, but with the most beautiful writing too.

I was actually put off by the blurb and the scary qualifications, because of previous bad experiences but it's a very clever book.

[mylodon.livejournal.com]

Only some of them.

[rwday.livejournal.com]

Well, as a librarian, (living, I think?) and a human being, I think they're full of themselves.

I remember one person in an SCA related group pontificating on and on about some topic in Renaissance art, bludgeoning everyone with their academic credentials. After a little digging, it was discovered that their field of study was Soviet Russia. Sorry. Historian =/= expert on all times and places.

[mylodon.livejournal.com]

Broadology? Mereology?

Oh Timne Team - I sometimes watch the repeats and it's great how the "We've found the great hall - look here's the fireplace and a door!" turns into, 40 minutes later, "Actually it's a workroom, with a furnace and a chest for tools". Yeah.

[cassiopaya.livejournal.com]

::hugs::

Whatever happened to YOUR MAMA! as the ultimate smackdown?

[alex-beecroft.livejournal.com]

LOL! Use your own!

[cassiopaya.livejournal.com]

Phosphodiester bonds are *squee* worthy indeed!

[chris-smith-atr.livejournal.com]

You're so right. People blethering on about their academic credentials online is rather off-putting. I'd much rather put my money towards someone less pretentious.

[cassiopaya.livejournal.com]

::Pepsi shoots out nose onto computer::

[joannesopercook.livejournal.com]

My personal pet peeve (apart from the historian thing, which you mention and which always makes me LOL because, unless said person has a doctoral degree in history and/or is teaching at a university, they aren't actually an historian, merely someone who read history at uni) are the ones who like to trot out their supposedly enormous IQ scores as a way to validate their personal opinion of what I am qualified to write: "Well, I have the highest IQ in the entire known universe and I can tell you for a fact that you should never write anything longer than a short story."

Really? Jeez. Someone tell my publishers - obviously the 8 novels I've published must have slipped through the cracks somehow. o_O

I mean, I don't care if you IQ is off the charts; it is only one method of measuring intelligence and, as we know, performing well on standardised tests doesn't really mean jack shit in the real world. So while it's nice that you have an IQ of 578 and are the smartest person in the world, and while you're obviously wasting your time talking to me, I think I'll take your opinion with a very large grain of salt...

/rant

[chris-smith-atr.livejournal.com]

You should see me trying to keep a straight face in meetings.

"First we'll errect the columns. Then we'll errect the walls. Then well..."

And Chris runs out of the room for an urgent bathroom break.

[cassiopaya.livejournal.com]

In Soviet Russia the field studies you!

I fail. :(

[cassiopaya.livejournal.com]

When we are done, this shall be known as the most fabulous erection in the Western Hemisphere!

*snerk*