(no subject)

[erastes]

Happy Birthday lyras and ruth_sims!! I hope you have a great day.

Two new and lovely reviews for Standish and one not so.

villainslair loved it.

katjak liked it a lot, had some queries (which I hope to address tonight with a very scholarly post about homosexual punishment/society in 1780-1820. Scholarly? Most unlike Erastes...) *G*

If anyone's done one that I haven't posted to, let me know - villainslair's was written in February, and I completely missed it, she must think I'm a right old cow.

Moo.

This reader was rather disgusted that Ambrose got lucky so early, and has stopped reading. I'm rather amused that they think I'm 13 though. *snarf *

Comments

[wildestranger.livejournal.com]

If I were you, I'd be kind of tempted to go and comment on the last post. But then again, I suppose it's pointless to talk to that kind of people - as the person clearly admits to not having read the novel, and is only interested in finding Mills and Boons in it anyway. What silly people. *shakes head*

[erastes.livejournal.com]

It's tempting, but no - that way lies Anne Ricery. I'll stay over here and grumble.

*G*

[semioticwarrior.livejournal.com]

That last one would have made me crawl under a table and never come out. The other two were good, though, and good in a well thought out sort of way.

I had questions, while reading, about the portrayal of Newgate prison. It seemed so different from the way prisons are now run. Can you point me to the source materials you used regarding prison conditions and its day-to-day running? Thanks.

Looking forward to reading Scholarly Erastes!

[erastes.livejournal.com]

It was VERY differnt. The state runs the prisons now - those days they were privately run, or run by a board - think of the poor house in Oliver as another example of a board.

The prisoners had to not only pay their fine, but also pay their release fee, as I said in the book, some men never got out because of this. It wasn't a case of "your six months is up, bye bye, and don't do it again." it was more profitable to keep them in. If they couldn't pay for their food, after all, they died anyway.

These are some of the sources I used.

A much better description than mine - of the hangings and the day of the hanging (seen from a witnesses perspective rather than cloistered away like Ambrose) is to be read in The Gallows Thief by Bernard Cornwell – highly recommended.

Bad reviews are cringeworthy, but I'm sure people are interested in them anyway, and they are instructive, to see what people find wrong. but yes, I'm under the bed, licking my wounds.

*G* Luckily there are tons of people who love it, and only 2 bad reviews so far.

http://www.londonancestor.com/leighs/pri-newgate.htm
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/LONnewgate.htm
http://www.umich.edu/~ece/student_projects/bonifield/newgatepic.html
http://www.litencyc.com/php/stopics.php?rec=true&UID=772
http://www.exclassics.com/newgate/ngintro.htm
http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/schools/sources.html
http://www.pepysdiary.com/

I played with the timeline of Newgate a little here –
http://www.institutions.org.uk/prisons/England/LDN/newgate_prison.htm

Laws
1st - Any person or persons watering in the yard, between the hours of half-past ten A.M. and two P.M. on visiting days, shall forfeit 6d.
2nd - Any person leaving the cover off the privy - shall forfeit 1d or 12 lashes.
3rd - Any person breaking wind in the ward from seven A.M. to ten P.M. shall forfeit 1d
4th - Any person using the disgusting word b....r shall forfeit 1d or 12 lashes.
5th - Any person leaving the privy door open during the night, from ten to six, shall forfeit one half-penny.
Men will Obey these Laws.

(Obviously women were exempt!!!!)

[zehavit-lamasu.livejournal.com]

It is very simple:

"I'm not going to pretend I'm the greatest fucking writer ever" = "I am the greatest writer EVER you just don't appreciate my writing and I am totaly utterly and terribly jealous that you published a successful book and I HAVEN'T so I will now bash it and get some sympathy from my friend* < /snark>

Sorry... my bitch is showing - but any review that start with "I am not the best writer/artist/car mechanic out there" and continues to bash a book meets with my immediate suspicion and ... welll... not a small amount of wank.

I guess bad reviews are inevitable but THAT opening? It is a big red light and a serious issue with me ... and I am not always giving good reviews...

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I agree with you - I've giving books I really disliked reivews, but there are ways of doing it. I usually finish the book FIRST though...

*G*

[rwday.livejournal.com]

Oh dear. 13? You're the Christopher Paolini of homoerotica, then? *headdesk*

It's so tempting to respond to that review, but going down that path leads to Anne Rice the Dark Side.

[alankria.livejournal.com]

Ewww, now I'm imagining what would happen if CP tried to write a smutty scene.

EWWWWWW. Bad thoughts, bad thoughts. But funny thoughts too. =D

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Yes. Eragon, the Smutfest.

*G*

[alankria.livejournal.com]

From skimming the review and comments on that last one, it looks like the reviewer wanted a long drawn-out romance, whereas one of the comments said that the declaration of feelings marks the beginning of a lot more plot. Which is enough to keep the book on my wish list. =D A book that's just about the romance I would find hard to stomach, even if it was all handled excellently, but if there's more stuff then I'm happy.

I do love that the reviewer assumes you're a teenager, and bitches about how "shit people" get published while some other person (probably a friend of hers, or popular online ficcer she knows) can't. It's like being back on fictionpress or fanfic.net.

Hurrah for the good reviews!

[haydenthorne.livejournal.com]

I do love that the reviewer assumes you're a teenager, and bitches about how "shit people" get published while some other person (probably a friend of hers, or popular online ficcer she knows) can't. It's like being back on fictionpress or fanfic.net.

There really ought to be a basic class that everyone needs to take about the publishing business. It's downright irritating when people think it's so easy to get one's story picked up by a publisher. A little research goes a long way especially if one's dream is to get something in print someday.

nod nod

[erastes.livejournal.com]

If it had been bought by a great big publishing house, marketed like billio, using my "name" because of the shock value, or something, then I would expect some crap, but it took me a while (and homework, as you say) to get it accepted and it was accepted on its merits, not because i was anyone's son, or brought with me a flist of 10,000's... No small print based publishing house is going to publish "shit" using their own money, after all.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I do rather object to be called a shit person. *G*

And she doesn't really seem sure of what she wants, she complains that the sex is too soon, (although the hate to love does take several months) and all that is going to happen is sex afterwards and then she complains that OMG there's going to be plot!!

Horrors!

[alankria.livejournal.com]

I do rather object to be called a shit person. *G*

It was more that it reminded me of people on fanfic.net who'd say "I don't know how Ms.Author got published, when she's so crap and MangaLuvva3891294 is SO much better at writing!" Which has always made me laugh. I didn't mean to imply you're a shit person.

And yes, she does seem rather confused about what she wants. Makes me wonder if she didn't quite like your book and took that as an excuse to write a massive rant about it when in reality she didn't dislike it that much, she just want to look cool and snarky. Which is a pretty wanky thing to say, I know, but the way she was clearly trying to be funny and contradicts herself is a little suspect.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

oh no, you didn't say I was a shit person, one of her friends did, I believe. I have long realised that the original writing world is no less wanky than fanfic, and have learned to cope with it. You have to, because in fandom, it doesn't really matter if you lose your reputation, but it does out in the original fic world...

[alankria.livejournal.com]

If you lose it in the original fic world, you become the next Anne Rice. :S

[erastes.livejournal.com]

So true!!! LOL!

[cloudofcalm.livejournal.com]

Man, that last one? Filled with embittered vitriol. I get the horse point, to some extent. Yes, you'd notice a change in a horse's gait if they're that injured when you first start riding, but from my experience, horses can do a lot of things to favour their feet. Plus, 'from what I understand a basic check' - buggery. The only thing that gets done for a horse to be ridden is you slap a bridle on his head, shove a martingale through his legs, and shove a saddle on his back.

The ONLY horses that you check the paces of are horses being checked out because they've been ridden and the gait is seemingly off.

And I love it. You go from being compared to Finnish classics to Mills and Boon. And not only Mills and Boon, but 'every slash author seemingly does X, Y Z and there's no variety, blah blah' to 'a romance story should be about the build up of the romance and nothing else!!!!!'

[gehayi.livejournal.com]

I checked Standish about the horse bit in the book. The horse is NOT lame. The horse is never described as lame. This is the description:

It looked as if the saddle had caused the horse such pain that he had reared and then fallen, crushing Goshawk beneath him.

:::

[Mizen] unsaddled Fury and vaulted onto the animal's back, carefully avoiding the raw bite on the off side.

So. Raw bite on the horse's side. The saddle, with Rafe Goshawk's full weight on it, hit the bite. The horse reared in pain, then lost its balance.

As erastes told me this morning, Fury is suffering from a bot infection. It has nothing to DO with a lame leg. And the text makes it perfectly clear that Fury wasn't lame, anyway.

Honest to God, there ought to be a rule: "If you going to bitch about something in the text, make sure that what you're bitching about is IN the text in the first place."

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Finnish classics! *dies of the giggles*

What amused me most was the changes - first of all I was wrong NOT to wait until the end to get my couple together - then I was accused of being predictable! And all this wisdom from people who had not read the book, and the source poster only having read up to page 55!!!

But yes, as gehayi says, the horse threw Rafe because of an infection on his withers/ saddle area, nothing to do with his feet, no lameness at all. Certainly if he'd been lame, Mizen would never have ridden him home.

[cloudofcalm.livejournal.com]

Have to say, I've quite obviously not read Standish. However, I do know from experience, if there's something fussed about a horse's withers, or even if the saddle is too small, it takes a while for the horse to react to it! I've seen a horse throw someone because the saddle wasn't right, and I've seen a horse freak because it's in pain. It happens, and it's not like, instantaneous. Horses put up with a lot first, and then they're just fed up with being messed around.

Long way of saying, I get that you're totally right. And the OP of that review? Doesn't know horses.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Thank you! And yes - basically Fury is what they call a geniune horse. Fiery, but not bad. Not been maltreated so he would, as you say, put up with a lot and then say "that's it, I've had enough of this" but merely to get the weight of his back, not to hurt anyone. It was just unfortunate he fell after rearing and damaged Rafe as he got back up.

I don't know where she got the idea of the horse being lame from at all.

*smooch*

[lee-rowan.livejournal.com]

My goodness, somebody's peeved because somebody else didn't write just what she wanted. I guess this is the counterpoint to the folks who grouse about me not showing explicit rape scenes. Takes all kinds. The fact is, male bullies, even those who consider themselves heterosexual, sometimes rape their victims. That goes back to the argument that rape is about power, not sex. And it's unfortunate that more feminine or androgynous young gay men are sometimes the target of 'he-men' who decide they 'need' to punish them for being gay...unfortunate, even pathological, but realistic. The human race isn't all pretty, polite romance, and I don't think Standish is ever going to be seen as a classic/formula romance novel.

It's kind of a pity this reviewer let her rant get out of hand, because she had a couple of valid observations re POV and horses. I didn't find it impossible to follow the POV, but you did change often and unpredictably--and it's also a valid point that a dedicated equestrian would probably notice if his horse's gait were off. Other than that, sounds like she wanted a long, drawn-out courtship with a clinch at the end, and you didn't give her that. Oh, well. She can resell the book, and someone will be delighted to buy it used.

But this 'review' is also a case of 'consider the source,' AFAIC... this chick has links posted to Faux News and Flush Dimbulb. I didn't recognize her other links, but that's at least two links to neocon propaganda sites..? That kind of sinks her credibilty with me. Looks more trollish than fannish.

[lee-rowan.livejournal.com]

My apologies re: the horse--I didn't go back and check. I thought she had caught a point that had just not seemed important to me.

That actually would be worth posting on her site--just as a correction of the error.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

No worries hun! I only noticed it because of the fact that it had happened to me, so it galled me.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Well, I've decided to take it all on the chin, and learn from them, or at least to consider each one on its merits and decide whether I need to learn from them. There are rough spots in Standish, omg don't I know that, but well, it's a first novel. I forgive myself. I've tried hard to erase the head hopping a great deal in Transgressions - even though the HH is just about the only thing the editors had no problems with, I understand it now, and it jars even me.

But she does say the horse was lame, and he certainly wasn't. I had exactly this thing happen to me, I rode my horse who had a bot infection on his withers that I hadn't spotted and I was thrown and broke my leg badly, but the infection didn't make him lame, wouldn't do.

I agree, she seems to be complaining that I didn't give her the romance formula, and then complaining that it was a romance at the same time. No wonder I was confused!!

As to the rape, yes - it was nothing to do with "hot sex" - it was revenge and pettiness and cowardlyness - and shows Francis (and his companions) in their true light, possibly as you were just feeling sorry for Francis for being dumped.

But it is interesting - to see how other people can see such different things in a book, and also how people will slag someone off when they haven't a clue who the author is, or know or have read the source!!!

*G* *Amused*

[lee-rowan.livejournal.com]

Interestingly enough, when you first posted this, Standish was around 11-12 on the US Amazon list.

Now it's #4.

Nothing like a bit of controversy to make people curious. ;-D

[villainslair.livejournal.com]

I have to cringe a bit about being linked to, not because you did, but because I probably seem like a teenager myself in the way I reviewed it. *hides in a corner*

Anyway...

I don't think you're a cow and I'm really glad you even saw the post at all. The last reviewer? Crap. How dare anyone review a book they don't give a fair chance to! (And by fair chance, I mean read the whole bloody thing first!) Yes, I admit I was wondering how in the first quarter of the book people could go so quickly from one emotion to another and get so attached, but I know people who are as innocent and trusting as Ambrose was and easily infatuated, therefore I read on wanting to know what was going to happen next. I told myself there had to be a reason, and there was. I like purpose in things and finding out that scattered events give meaning and add to the basic every day emotions, interactions, and...overall events of life (especially in the end of what we get to see). Everything we do shapes who we are, just as everything others do to and for us does. To quit in the middle is just giving up. To quit in the beginning? That shows you're not willing to try in the first place. My advice, for what it's worth, is to ignore the quitter and focus on those who gave the book as a whole a chance -- and not because we liked it.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Ah well, you must be a teenager to be reading crap slash by a 13 year old!!

If I were to write it again I might make it more obvious that the time from hate to love was several months, and emphasise the gradual affection building up which starts from when he sees how Rafe is with his son.

But I have to take the good reviews with the bad, it only helps to improve me.

Thanks hun

xxx

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Stop it, you! You don't get punished by being taken roughly by behind, miss!

Coming very soon, just polishing it now..

[lyras.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I had a lovely day apart from having to work.

Bleh. Just made it through two paragraphs of that last review and closed the window in disgust. S/he gave up because of pacing issues because your story didn't fit the Mills & Boon stereotype? How much wonderful writing s/he must miss out on.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Glad you had a good day. Boo to the work though.

Yes. Evidently "thou must not have people jumping into bed with each other before the end of the book"

It's the law, apparently.