Deathly Hallows: Well I'm done

[erastes]

I need to read again, slowly of course, as I missed a ton of stuff. Better than HBP, but that's actually not much of a ringing accolade.



1. deaths

The deaths - for me, were trivialised, rushed and glossed over. I shouldn't be particularly surprised as Harry actually has the attention span of a drunk goldfish, but he mourned for Hedwig for about 2 minutes (and that was 20 times longer than he did for Sirius)

The second half of the book is as busy, rushed and crowded, confusing and lacking in detail as the first half of the book is long slow and frankly rather dull (despite having several attacks/fights)

Peters death. WTF? How utterly pointless. Did he get given a silver hand for the one reason that he could strangle himself? If you are a wizard, there must be 100 ways of killing yourself, it was just one of many many many things that were pointlessly done, and wrapped up in a way that you felt that JKR had just had enough of this, and couldn't be arsed to do anything better. I always (as did a lot of others) thought that it would be a weapon against a werewolf, but I think the fan speculation may have stopped her from that.

Hedwig - Harry mourned for about 2 minutes. But I guess that was about 2 minutes longer than for Sirius

Lupin I missed this completely. When he turned up with James and Sirius my jaw was on the floor. gehayi tells me that Tonks was killed as well and I missed that too! I was rather pleased and my inner puppyshipper was cheering when Lupin turned up with the Marauders and not with his dead wife.

Colin I actually felt a pang over this, probably becuase of the cherubic little actor in the 2nd film, but I always quite liked Colin. I liked a lot that kids got killed because this is what happens in war.

Fred - this caught me, although gehayi predicted it - because a broken set of twins is always heartbreaking. Turned Molly into Sigourney Weaver, too from Aliens, which made me laugh.

Severus. Again with the pointless. It wasn't noble, it wasn't self sacrificing. I guess the only thing I could say about it is that it was realistic in as much as it just happened. And after 7 years of loathing and despising Snape Harry has the most unbelievable volte-face after two minutes in the pensieve - DESPITE the fact that every single fact in the penseive had been suggested by somebody at some point and Harry just wouldn't listen. The little shit. I hate him so much. I felt a real lack of emotion from Harry pretty well all through, but that's no surprise.

2. I can't believe that we got Dumbledore Explains It All™ AGAIN, even though the little shit was dead. Even death can't shut the manipulative git up. And he still was an arrogant arse. "most of my guesses are right

3. It was gratifying to be completely 100 right about:

Snape's motivations/allegiances
Dumbledore's training Harry to die
Ollivander's kidnap

4. Endless camping. Ugh. What was the point of the De-lighting device please? Other than to stupidly give Ron Ron something to do?

5. There was such much muddle and stuff not explained properly - Ginny's flitting in and out of Harry's mind - Draco's obvious non committal to the cause was utterly left to our own imagination, near enough - he was nothing more than a plot device. As was so much. Whilst I'm very very pleased about Lucius - there's not really any point without Severus.

6. Ron (as much as hate to say it) made me laugh out loud about four times. When she lets herself be irreverent she can really connect with me, and I found myself liking Ron more than I have since the first couple of books. Neville did bloody well, all hail him. And Hermione just pissed me off because she turned into Ms Sue Witch doing all this magic, and it did to me was to emphasise what a lazy little git Harry was, because like - if you knew you were going to be fighting for your life (and possibly your friends) and he has known that for bloody years, you'd think he would have studied a bit more (LIKE, ANY). Instead of leaving it all for someone else. He had aspirations to be an Auror, after all, and he had a lot of study time - the least he could have learned was how to knit wounds.

7. I wonder what the fundementalist american backlash will be about the language - effing is all very camoflaged, but I wouldn't want my kids to start saying it.

8. All in all - I found it marginally better than HBP, but there were no surprises (other than a pleasant one) and I found it all rather dull at the beginning and over ambitious at the end. It either needed to be shorter, or a lot longer - and I don't know which. So. Meh.

9. Severus-Lily - I actually LIKED how this was managed. I really liked that they were pre-school friends, and it rang a lot more true, and wasn't all LOVEY DOVEY like it would have been if he'd just got attracted to her at school unrequitedly. It showed that she liked him for what he was, and that meant a hell of a lot to me - because for years I've been a great believer in Snape, that he had a heart (albiet for Lucius) and no-one ever saw him like I did - and it broke me that Lily did.

It was a mirror of Sirius and Regulus - it made a lot of sense that they would inevitably drift apart - Snape was a Slytherin and a damned good one, and he would take advantage of the advantages that the house gave him (as I've always said he would) and Lily would not understand that. As I say, I liked it. And it wasn't overdone - he loved her, but wasn't IN LOVE with her, (in my opinion) leaving my own Snucius intact.

Oh god. How am I going to tell Lucius?

(Tell me what, sweet? What were you reading all day?)

10 The epilogue was the worst idea EVER. no matter that she'd written it years ago. It showed. It was hideous and reminded me of the sequels to Little Women (which I also hated)

And HOW DARE he call his son Severus. He doesn't deserve to speak his name.

There will be sporkage however. Aside from the immediate points I've posted here - there are a LOT of problems that I saw even on a skim read. Time lines getting muddled, contradictions, inconsistencies, bad editing (if any) blah blah blah - so I'm announcing that deadlyhollow will be opening for business at some point in the near future.

Comments

[liriaen.livejournal.com]

For some reason I'm currently enjoying my friends' opinions a lot more than the lure of the actual book, which I've got sitting here, largely untouched. :) And I sort of can see how all reactions have their point; how people can utterly love it (be it for the forced denouement, be it for future fanfic potential) while others zoom in on narrative/literary flaws - I'd say all parties are right, in their own way, with their respective levels of critical (or uncritical) approach. And what fails as a piece of literature may still work as a story. I guess.

I love your channeling Lucius there for a sec - typed in exactly the same colour I vomited all over the epilogue. (I had a peek, yea.) :D

[erastes.livejournal.com]

As fanfic fodder, it is utterly brilliant, but as I'm not there any longer, that's not much good for me.

Now I've had some time to mull it over I rather like the wandlore aspects of it (which you will come to when you read it) and it hints of a deeper side of magic that I wish to hell she had explored a bit more previous to this.

As a story, yes, it's pretty good, all of the books are, it's a page turner and there's no putting it down once began, but then ... so is Dan Brown I have to say.

I'm grateful to Potterdom because it started me writing, but I'll never think she's a good writer, just a good story teller - she's never improved in her technique, which, over 17 years, that's very odd.

Lucius is Ok, btw - Sinick's comment further down brought it into perspective for him. Severus is a potion master after all. He'd be taking anti-venom on a daily basis...

[myrddin.livejournal.com]

I do believe there are going to be a lot of books with mysterious scorched and hacked portions at the end where the epilogues has been rendered illegible or just forcibly removed.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen one favourable review of the epilogue. Even over on the Fire and Ice Forums they were throwing up over their shields.

[slashpine.livejournal.com]

Bang on. Absolutely best first-take review yet.

Deaths devoid of meaning, OOC violence and abysmal sexism, lack of motivation for most characters at most time (excepting Harry, who's had no motivation from the start; just lives to be a symbol and moan and rage about it).

Camping for months - in the winter - LOL. Could there be a less interesting setting? Yes, only Ron makes all of this worthwhile. Without him, there's little to do but take idle bets on which is worse, page by page: Harry-Frodo (O WO is ME how am I to ENDURE my BURDEN) or twinkly-Sue Hermione, apparently the only Hogwarts student to crack a book in 20 years.

And when not teen-fic boring (wedding *bleurch*) it's a jumble of poorly plotted action (hello: EDITOR needed).

She treats her characters so shabbily, with such casual dismissal and lack of empathy (Lucius, Lupin, Draco, Fleur, Scrimgeour, Ted Tonks, SNAPE) I'm hard-pressed to guess if she actually likes ANY of them? Perhaps this is the price paid for becoming a highly famed author obligated to finish the series. It seems to me the first books presented people more sympathetically.

I love the epilogue because it is such bad fic, and is so clearly intended as JKR's final pinning-down of everything, that it can't help but encourage 248,052 fanfic writers to totally cut loose -- who could do worse? -- and CANON IS CLOSED! Let the writing begin. The Fandom OWNS it now.

looking forward to deadlyhollow *smirk*

[erastes.livejournal.com]

And having the wedding on the day AFTER Harry's Birthday? How stupid are wizards? Don't answer that. I already know.

I agree with you about the way she treats her characters, here, latterly in the series, and it's for that reason, both here and in HBP that I feel that she either completely lost interest in writing it, (understandable if you are richer than god) or ghost writers were heavily involved. She created these people, and made up care very deeply about them in books that were half the size of the later books and yet the deaths are one liners, or even less.

btw - what the hell was the arena cover picture supposed to be about? what were they both pointing at?

I agree with you re: Severus/Lily

[jazzypom.livejournal.com]

She was obviously fond of him, but not in love with him, and he was just pining. Unrequited love is a kink of mine, and I kinda misted up on that one.

I'm interested to see what fandom is going to do with this development. I didn't realise how much I liked/respected Snape until he went out like a punk. I do hope Rowling is finished with this world, although I did enjoy the book. Compared to GoF, OoTP and HBP, this book was the best of her lot by far.

Re: I agree with you re: Severus/Lily

[erastes.livejournal.com]

It was fairly obvious to me that he was a lonely little boy who just needed a sister.

And All was well?

most inaccurate close to a book. Ever.

You really think that after ALL of the 1000 years of repetitive destruction, mostly CAUSED BY HOGWARTS that they would have done away with the sorting - wouldn't you???

*headdesk*

This one fact alone gives me cause to think that she'll revisit the world. I won't, though.

Don't tell Lucius!

[alankria.livejournal.com]

Did you notice this? (re: Harry having Lily's eyes)

http://www.journalfen.net/community/fandom_wank/1096138.html?thread=155835594#t155835594

Re: Don't tell Lucius!

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Yes. I nearly lost my lunch.

[lovefromgirl.livejournal.com]

Welcome, unfortunately, to my nightmare. Especially not too keen on the way JKR stuck Hermione in a domestic Weasley paradise. The Hermione I read and loved would not have gone in that direction.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

That's the thing - over the past 3 books, nearly all of the characters have been lessened, or have gone through such tremendous changes in character that they are almost unrecognisable.

Sue-Hermione was just hateful, and then seemed to vanish for the last half of the book. Handy, like Molly, for washing and cooking and getting the men organised, but that's just about it.

[bloodrebel333.livejournal.com]

I heard she's going to write short stories in the same world, now that she's finished with the series.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I've always predicted she would. At first she said "I won't ever do that again" and then on Jonathan Ross's show last week she said "Well, I'll never say never" so I consider that she probably will.

Specially when her next project flops, which will be about a girl, I'm guessing.

[lee-rowan.livejournal.com]

Haven't read it yet--I'm a perv who actually likes spoilers. I was so underwhelmed when she shoved Sirius through the disposal (um--here's a doorway to the Choir Invisible, no safety ropes, no LOOK OUT! sign, no nothing...? that it doesn't surprise me much. But then, I don't think JKR is the Greatest Writer Who Ever Lived, and I've never seen HP as anything but kids-to-young-adult books.

As for fundamentalists in the US -- hey, they completely miss George Bush being the antichrist, and they don't read HP anyway, so I doubt 'effing' will even hit their radar. Folks who don't read British fiction probably don't realize what effing means, anyway.

So she didn't kill off He Who Must Not Be Referred To Except Obliquely? If that's the case, it's a damned shame.

Re Hermione.. she's always been the only competent one in the bunch. No surprise that stays the case.

I'll read it eventually, but probably not until the book comes up in the secondhand stores. No time, toulouse!

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I can't believe I didn't mention Voldie's death - but it was treated with the same "non-event"-ness that everyone else's was. Potter was in Superman mode by that time and there was no tension, no doubt.

Rushed, far far too rushed. Well worth waiting for 2nd hand copy so she doesn't get her cut from you

[lee-rowan.livejournal.com]

Having set myself up for deadline rush and been unhappy with what came out, I can only imagine the pressure on JKR to finish the books in time for the Great Harry Potter Cash Machine--because publishers don't care about quality anymore -- it's all "product." Rowling could have used a good, tough editor, especially on the 5th book.

I think the publicity on this one was just too damn much, and I'm getting curmudgeonly over it. We've got a humongous war going in the Middle East, global warming may be past the tipping point, but the news--at least in the US--has been treating Deadly Hollow as though it's the Second Coming. If she could write like Patrick O'Brian, I could understand it.

OTOH, as a counterirritant to fundamentalism, it's pretty effective.... ;-0

[erastes.livejournal.com]

On a completely personal and conspiracy theory kind of way, I don't believe this or the last one was entirely JKR written but that's on the same lines as Who Killed Princess Di so I'll brush that aside...

But yes, I can agree with you there - it's a massive job to create a saga like this, and a 800 page book that ties up a few plot holes - and although I know she said that she wasn't working to a deadline, it's more likely that she was, if not a strict one - because the books have been pretty regular. When I see the amount of angst that George RR Martin goes through and he's been writing Dragons for years and that should have been done last year and he's still not finished.

But notwithstanding, I still think more editing should have been done - unless the rumours are true and she goes into an Anne Rice paddy when anyone tries to change anything - because when I see badly constructed sentences and blatent canon deviations I lose faith before I go any further.

I don't know about the publicity, as I've been off line and off tv for the last week, but it's been pretty coolly received here, in as much as we are English and don't make a FUSS, other than the launch parties etc, but i'll certainly be watching the "snobby" book review show next week to see what they made of it. A load of bow tied intellectuals discussing it. *G*

Infuriates me that POB and Pullman - who write INFINITELY better, don't get the same hysteria

[sinick.livejournal.com]

Did you see a funeral? A ghost? A portrait - as all Headmasters of Hogwarts have after their death?

Tsk.

And you call yourself a Slytherin?

[erastes.livejournal.com]

You cheer me considerably.

And I've just realised. He's a Potions MASTER. He's also a spy. He's working for a man with a big sod-off snake.

He'd be saturated in anti venom, wouldn't he?

I bet they never found his body....

[sinick.livejournal.com]

He'd be saturated in anti venom, wouldn't he?

Absolutely! That and various other antidotes'd be nothing more than basic common sense.

Plus, Arthur Weasley was bitten not once but repeatedly by Nagini, and he survived.

I bet they never found his body....

I just bet they didn't! ;}

[rwday.livejournal.com]

I don't know why our opinions on this are so divergent - I saw the problems, can't argue with any of your points, but I still really enjoyed it. It's up there with PoA and OotP as my top 3 in the series. I was definitely satisfied with how she wrapped things up (not meaning the epilogue, per se, but the end of the actual story)

I feel like leaving fandom has liberated me to just enjoy the Potter books as they are and not expect them to be more than that, not expect JKR to be more than she is. You pegged it in a comment response - she's a sort of children's/YA Dan Brown with better world building, characterization and occasional flashes of depth and brilliance. For serious depth in a youth fantasy, I'd go to Pullman, not Rowling.

The fundamentalists already hate HP for things that have nothing to do with language - they won't even read DH as it 'promotes witchcraft'. *headdesk*

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Well, we are two differnt people, obviously. *G* I wasnt' expecting it to be good, I guess, as HBP just about ruined any enjoyment I had had in the saga, I couldn't - can't - look back at POA with any affection because she has ruined it for me. I can't see how anyone who went to the trouble to create vibrant characters she made us love would then dismiss them in less than a sentence.

So I went in with a very jaundiced eye. Plus you are basically a much nicer person than I am.

She's been writing for 17 years, or rather, she's been writing this saga for 17 years and she hasn't improved her style one whit. I look at your stuff from four years ago and the improvement is noticable.

There was just too much deus ex machina, too much idiocy, too much Luke Skywalker, TRAP! too much Mary-Sue Hermione cooking and blatent contradictions of previous canon again. I won't say I didn't enjoy the ride, but the overrall taste in my mouth was horrible when I finished. even Voldemort deserved more of a death than the one sentence he got. There was so little emotion in Harry, which isn't surprising as he's been growing more and more dead as the saga progressed that he was an inferius by the end, it seemed.

There was just so much PROMISE that she showed in earlier books, so much more she should have done with the characters - and by that I don't mean anything to do with fandom or slash - and she let them all down.

But hey. You enjoyed it. Well done!

[souliesoul.livejournal.com]

The deaths - for me, were trivialised, rushed and glossed over.

I agree. I didn't even realise Tonks and Remus had died til Remus showed up with the crowd, and I flicked back a few pages thinking 'wth?!' They deserved more.

I liked the Severus-Lily too :) It was done well.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I still haven't found the text where either of them died!

[souliesoul.livejournal.com]

You don't see them die in text. Which is awful because if you're going to kill them at least show us! You only get a very brief glimpse of their bodies - with nothing to say how they died. Page 531 UK edition.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Blech. I do feel cheated - Remus did so much. She worked HARD to give us Remus, his pathos, his connection to Harry and the things he did to help, his conflicted past, his connection to Fenrir - and then....

blown away.

Wasted. Nothing. It's like so many other characters that she built up in layers in other books and then never used - it was as if she was saving them "just in case" and that's just NOT on.

It's the loaded gun theory - If you show a loaded gun in scene one, it needs to have gone off by the last scene. She did this with Ginny - showing us how powerful a little witch she was, how she had a grasp of powerful spells that others didn't - she did this with Percy, making him read "prefects who gained power" (making me think he knew about Riddle, and wondering if he'd switch sides) and ...

NOTHING.

NOTHING!

[souliesoul.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's like she doesn't know what to do with her characters, especially when paired with the mess of an epilogue. It's really poor writing, which is sad because so much of this book shines and overall it's great, but little things let it down :(

[slashpine.livejournal.com]

Not to fret. 248,052 fanfic writers are now on the job. Will mend plotholes or drive large trainloads of better story right through them. Restore damaged character reputations and resuscitate where warranted.

As per standard triage principles, the most badly wounded are being helped first (Snape!! Remus, Tonks ... not sure if Fred is being seen to, but I imagine many OBHWF fans are hovering over him. Moody: heh - no body! Moody lives). Many will then "fan out" LOL to help repair damaged reputations, re-establish laws of canon, investigate misuse of magic by muggle authors, and no doubt call in mismatched partners for some badly needed counseling, i.e., quick divorces!

Of course, as is inevitable in the aftermath of a stressful and traumatizing event, some are engaging in time-honored apotropaic rituals -- i.e., celebrating survival with mad sex (AS/S). \o/

[erastes.livejournal.com]

It makes me laugh at how quickly people rush to a new ship (ASS) and poor Harry and his family and Draco and his receding hairline are left with their horrid wives and nothing but memories of their gay youth.

All they can do is look across the train platform at each other.

[slashpine.livejournal.com]

That receding hairline was the most *Freudian* crack (so to speak). I don't think anyone failed to WTF on that one!

If I were rushing into the next gen thing (which I am not, being quite loyal) I would promote an "Aspin" pairing - Albus Severus & Teddy Lupin. Oh, the things they could get up to! Channeling Sirus/Severus/Remus for sure. Besides, someone would need to rescue at least that one Potter-Weasley offspring; the James creature (a total Harry-Sue) already looks beyond redemption.

[souliesoul.livejournal.com]

Hopefully lots of stuff will surface about this gen sooner rather than later as I'm really not interested to read about the next one, funny ship name or no! heh :)

[erastes.livejournal.com]

No, me either. HP:TNG No thank you.

Once I've written a couple of Lucius pieces, just to put my mind at rest - and have done the DH Spork, then I'm done. done done done.

Loaded gun theory

[cheshyre]

Hm, maybe that's part of the reason why JKR has inspired so much fanfic.

Because her characters are all loaded guns, and there are so many ways in which they could go off...

Re: Loaded gun theory

[erastes.livejournal.com]

That's true, it's just a shame that she didn't do as much with them as she had given them promise to do.

[entropy-comix.livejournal.com]

Lupin and Tonks died on page 661 of the U.S. edition. They got like a sentence, in which Harry saw them lying on the floor and they looked "peaceful" and "like they were asleep," which was such unbelievable b.s.. For a second I half expected them to get up and say "LOL WE WERE JUST STUNNED DON'T WASTE THAT 10 SECONDS OF DESPAIR ON US HARRY," but...oh well...

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Well, let's be frank, the cold-hearted self-centred toad wouldn't have spent that long on them, would he?

*stabs him*

Thank you!

[liebesdammerung.livejournal.com]

DUMBLEDORE MADE ME SO ANGRRRRY.

I'll have mroe to say later.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I gradually started to hate him throughout the series, and by the end of OotP I was incandescent. HBP pushed me completely over the edge. Now I just feel vindicated when so many people said I was wrong.