And not a sign of Noel Edmonds...

[erastes]

I've just discovered

www.swapshop.co.uk which is a bloody good idea.  The nice thing is that it's more of a bartering/alternative currency thing than a bona-fide swap shop - e.g.  You put an item up for "swapping" - someone accepts it and you receive "swap points" which you can then "spend" on items that you would like. So you don't have to actually swap your item for anything that your recipient wants.

What a great idea!  I've got so much stuff I can get rid of this way!

And I've got a writery type question about superfluous characters.

I've been struggling with a novella for several months now. Time enough for some people to have written two full-sized novels, I'm sure. Firstly I think I'm finding it difficult because I had to provide the publisher with an outline of the plot before commencing, and that's not the way I write. Like Stephen King I like to discover the plot at the same pace as my readers and although I generally know how things are going to end, I make it up as I go. Having the plot already outlined in my head means that the book is already written and I'd rather like some more magical means of transposing it onto paper rather than my fingers.

Bah.

But - possibly in rebellion at sticking to the outline given - I've suddenly introduced a new character who I don't really want to delete as he's already got a backstory and history with the main character. But. His only real existence within the story is to sit and have lunch with said main character and whilst I could give him a reason for being there, it doesn't impinge on the plot at all, and so he is, as Willow sings, "mostly filler."

What do you guys think?  If you meet an interesting (hopefully) character in a book and then the author doesn't actually do anything with that character other than to have lunch with main character, would you be annoyed?  And why?

Comments

[markprobst.livejournal.com]

Well, my editor would probably tell you to cut him, because she likes things really lean and if he's not pertinent to the story, buh-bye. But personally I think "filler" can add atmosphere and I don't think every thread has to have a resolution. So no, I would not be annoyed if an interesting character were to only serve as a lunch guest.

[angrboda]

That's an awesome idea! Now I want to move to England, I want in!

I poked around at the site and didn't see anything about non-UK users, so I suspect it wouldn't be any use for me to try. The shipping costs would be horrendous in the long run. Boo.

[crawling-angel.livejournal.com]

>>>Like Stephen King I like to discover the plot at the same pace as my readers and although I generally know how things are going to end, I make it up as I go. Having the plot already outlined in my head...

Eeee, that's me too! I can only concentrate on one chapter at a time...get it written...then say ok...what's gonna happen now. I know the beginning and the end and that's what's so much fun the fact that I have to fill in the bits in between.

Character>>> No I don't think I'd be annoyed because he's getting the main character to think and speak so the reader finds out more about him. He might get him to say/think things which are very integral to the plot...if you have one yet that is, hehe ;p

[erastes.livejournal.com]

You should see if there's one DK, if not - start one!! :D

I'm thinking that it might be the only way I could afford to save up for a PS3!!

[erastes.livejournal.com]

thank you, I was half tempted to cut him,but that's like murder for me, as once I've actually written something down, it's happened and to undo it would be like messing with the time continuum or something...

Stupid I know as the idea of being a writer should be that you can change what you like whenever you like, but I can't think of it like that.

And he's a chap I might use again, so it would be nice to keep him in.

Thanks!

[rwday.livejournal.com]

Yes, I think it would be kind of frustrating, like someone holding out a slice of cake and then taking it away. Or to use a more writerly sort of analogy, it's like the old 'show a gun in Act I, use it by Act III' thing. I think a lot of readers expect the people and situations they meet on the journey to have a purpose and contribute to the development of the story.

So if it were me, I'd either get rid of him or revise the plot to make him at least marginally significant, but your mileage may vary, of course.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I'm glad it's not just me - I was beginning to think it was just me. I'm also very much a jigsaw writer, I skip ahead and write scences that interest me more, like arguments and the ending and then slot them in afterwards.

I think you are right, and thank you - I think that his conversation with the MC shows a lot of the MC's character!

*hug*

[angrboda]

Googled a bit and found something that looked promising, but it turned out to be something you could sign up for and automatically generate more hits to your website (which makes me wonder if that's becuase it will actually get more visitors or if they're just going to stuff people's hit counters...)

Then I found something else that looked promising but it had been taken down indefinitely because it was full of fake stuff.

I tried www.swapshop.dk just on a whim and discovered that the domain is for sale for 5,500 kr plus VAT...

Not having much luck here.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Thanks hun - it's something that I think I'm going to have to do - I do like the lunch scene, andI don't want to lose him, so I'll have to entwine him in the plot somehow. Annoying isn't it!!

[seraphim-grace.livejournal.com]

I'm the last writer to ask, like you I let my books grow and if a character like that appears I know from past experience he will not easily die and he will take over the mss
I'd say kill him, kill him now, but it won't work, and before you know it you're writing all about him because he's more fun than the main character and he's well and truly taken over.

[ejab62.livejournal.com]

Don't cut him out, I'd say. If I remember correctly, you write the same was as I do (random, like puzzle pieces, so he might surprise you and turn up later again?

[sleveen.livejournal.com]

I hate those damn characters. I'm always beating them off with a stick. Every time I am writing something, they show up banging at the door, wanting to get in: "Write me, write me!" Ugh.

Who was the famous editor who said "Kill the babies?" (meaning, get rid of such characters)

It's so hard to do but it has to be done. :) I'll think of you fondly.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Yes, jigsaw puzzle writing!! I'll see if I can slot him in later - if not, I think he'll have to come out.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

*Laughs* I don't know where he came from. He was supposed to be a character who begs gideon for a swift blow job and gets one but he turned into a best friend with a past... and not a blow job in sight.

*kicks him*

Glad its not just me this happens to.

:D

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's exactly what happened to Fleury, he was supposed to be killed off, damn him - not take over the second half of Standish. I don't think this guy is anything like that kind of threat - he might be if it was a full-sized novel but it's going to be difficult to incorporate that into 40,000 words.

It's good just to yak about it, and it's times like this i miss my mother - so I can have someone to talk about it on a face to face basis.

[seraphim-grace.livejournal.com]

mine was called Tobin, he was meant to pop up, announce his intentions and die in a blaze of glory, ten years later I'm still writing stories about him

maybe he's telling you he has a novel of his own.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

*laughs*

And I think you may be right, but I'd like to try other eras, I'm getting bored with the 19th century.

[crawling-angel.livejournal.com]

SwapShop>>> Oooh, it seems the item has to be sent first before the seller receives points *wibble*

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Yes, I think it's very much on a trust basis, but I always get proof of posting.

[crawling-angel.livejournal.com]

Eeeee, I've just registered and listed one book so far.

[vashtan.livejournal.com]

Don't become a slave to the outline. The concept of an outlines really means: "The book I would have written if I hadn't got much better ideas while writing it."

Nobody will say "no" to your book just because it's not 100% the outline. If that character lives, give him more space.

[lee-rowan.livejournal.com]

Put him in and keep writing., If he's important, he'll turn up again, if he's not you can put a walk-on into the lunch scene. I haven't found this publisher obsessive about sticking to the outline--that's just to make sure you've actually got an entire idea in mind when you pitched the book. They won't complain if you come up with something more interesting than the outline.

Don't get bogged down polishing one doorknob while you're building a house. I do that myself and it's a horrible time-waster.

Now you've got me curious about the bastard. He probably has a story in his pocket.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I've done so well today!! Over 2,000 words and still going!

I've managed to work him back in, even though I haven't written him yet, I think we'll be seeing him again at some point in the future though.

I do a lot of knob polishing...

:)

thanks, hun

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I wasn't worried about the outline, exactly, more that I was using this scene as an easy way to fill a couple of thousand words and it's all a bit pointless...

But I've managed to work him into the original plot too now. Phew!

[lee-rowan.livejournal.com]

2000! Yay! that's nearly 10% of a novella!

I've noticed your minor characters always seem to have plots attached...