So I haven't said anything before.

[erastes]

theregoesyamum has done a great post on plagiarism. She has more right to be posting about it as she's been plagiarised, and as far as I know, I - either as underlucius or erastes- have not been. But I'd been mulling over the issue over the last 24 hours, and am wondering why I get so hot under the collar thinking about it. I know it was "years ago" but I only heard about yesterday. And the plagiarised fics are still online (albiet briefly apparently, be thankful for small mercies).

Fanfic is a fun hobby. So if it's a hobby and no-one can make any money from it, what's the big deal about making a Fuss if someone nicks your words? It's a compliment, surely?

No. It's not. Writing fanfic (IMO) is a compliment. Some writers don't agree, but personally I can't think of anything more squeeful than having fanfic. It's a gift to the writer that his/her characters have made an impression, have filtered into the subconcious. The only problem that I personally can see with it, is that if a ficcer were to write something that was already in the writer's mind for a sequel, it would squash that sequel pretty flat.

I would think that anyone writing would be striving to improve. Just for their own peace of mind, no matter if they were going to stay in fandom writing for ever, or move on to the cold world of original writing. If you are using other's work, even if it's "only a line here and there" then you aren't improving. It's like secret eating (and believe me, I know of what I speak in that regard) you are fooling no-one but your self, and eventually your transgressions WILL find you out and your ability to be believed is severely compromised.

Do I believe her original fic is truly original? No. I don't. It might be. But she's plagiarised once and got away with it hugely.

I guess it's like... I've tried various styles as writing exercises. I explored that on hp_literotica. But I don't want to write like Harper or Dickens or eudaimon or spessartine. I wish I WERE them so I could write like that - but I want to write like me. The greatest thrill in a fic-fest was, for me, to have someone say "Oh, this is underlucius"

And you can't have your own style if you are nicking it from other people.

I think what makes me laugh hardest about this whole thing more than anything else is that Cassie Claire says that "No-one is to write any Secret Diaries." I mean... WTF? No patische of the patische? Come on CC - play fair. You can't have it both ways. You can't even stop people patisching original books (see Barry Trotter, Parry Hotter, Bored of the Rings, etc etc etc) What are you going to do? Cease and Desist orders? *dies laughing*


In other news, yet another agent rejection. "Not quite what I'm looking for"

TV-wise, I am officially blissed out. Film Four is running a series of Studio Ghibli films. Today: Princess Mononoke. I've been wanting to see this film for ages.

Comments

[thistlerose.livejournal.com]

I never saw the point of plagiarism. (Okay, that's not strictly true. I got in trouble about it once. When I was twelve I let a friend copy my notes, which he then gave to other students to copy, and we all got into heaps of trouble when the teacher found out. I still remember her screaming at me, "YOU'VE TAKEN MY RESPECT AND DESTROYED IT WITH ONE FELL SWOOP!"* I never let anyone copy anything of mine again!)

But, yeah. I mean, I don't have a problem with fan fiction (obviously!) or retellings. Putting a new spin on someone's else's stuff is fun, good practice, and relatively harmless. But if a person can't find an original way of saying something, I'm not sure that person should be writing.

____

* Which she lifted from Shakespeare, though that's not the same thing. :P

[nagasvoice.livejournal.com]

Yeah for Ghibli films!

[lady-isabella.livejournal.com]

I think there are very definite differences between Plagiarism, Pastiche, Parody, and the 'Modeling' of another author's literary style.

Pastiche is, in and of itself, a respectable literary genre. An author takes characters/settings made famous by another author and writes an original work involving those borrowed concepts. Off the top of my head, I can think of several Sherlock Holmes pastiches out there, a number of books inspired by the Darcy family of Austen's Pride & Prejudice, not to mention sequels/spin-offs of Gone With The Wind and Jane Eyre. But in this case, the pastiche author makes it very clear that their work draws from original 'canon' produced by a different person. In my mind, Fanfic is a subcategory of Pastiche.

Parody is a close sibling to Pastiche, but not the same, since it often involves changing names (i.e., Harry Potter to Barry Trotter), emphasis of style/plot weaknesses, and it's almost always played for comedy -- while many Pastiches are very serious drama. The emphasis here is on making fun of something specific (like a particular book or a genre style), but it's made clear that the parody references work(s) that the parodying author did not create.

And then there's 'Modeling'. The copying of a writer/artist's style/plot, and sometimes very closely. I like modeling quite a bit -- a majority of the fanfic that I've written (particularly for hp_classic) are very clear models of other authors' (Shirley Jackson, Edgar Allan Poe, T.S. Eliot, Ambrose Bierce) works. But in each of these instances, I clearly noted that I was deliberately attempting to impose Harry Potter stuff upon the style and plots of these famous writers' creations. I noted that often, my fanfic is a lot more enjoyable if you've read the original works before.

One reason why I'm attracted to modeling in my writing is because I feel I am particularly weak in the area of developing original plots. Obviously if I model another writer's plot, that solves that problem for me. But I've never ever claimed that plot to be my own, in the stories where I've employed the modeling technique. Of course, a superior writer will be making original plots. But I freely acknowledge that I'm not at that level for the most part, and I derive a lot of challenge and pleasure from the modeling process. So there you go.

But then you have Plagiarism, where you take another person's intellectual property without permission and without credit, and claim that it's your own creation. Massively, massively uncool -- even when it has nothing to do with monetary issues. Completely different, also, in intent from all the other categories I've discussed above, where credit is always given to the sources inspiring the pastiche/parody/model. Authorial intent is the lynchpin here, and when that authorial intent is to lie about your sources, then that becomes bad news all around.

[gunderpants.livejournal.com]

Having someone claim credit for work you've solely done is less complimentary and more a slap in the face: it's why we always acknowledge the owners and creators of the original canons in our disclaimers by paying deference to the characters and world that they allow us to play with. (Not literally, though this would be nice, of course.)

[bloodrebel333.livejournal.com]

The Sewcret Diaries characters are Tolkien's and the writing style's the one Helen Fielding used in the Bridget Jones books.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Yes, I know that. My point was that she has no right to say "THESE ARE MINE YOU CAN'T USE THEM" unless of course she plans to publish them, and in which case they need to be off the net.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

absolutely. And lifting huge chunks of text from other people's books is ... well, there's no words for it.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

it was... strange

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Yes - I understand the differences, Izzy. I guess I wasn't very clear. I was simply appalled that Cassie Claire had built such a reputation on theft.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Absolutely. I would go absolutely ballistic if it happened to me.

*ggggggggrrrrrrrr*

[bloodrebel333.livejournal.com]

She can't even publish them. I mean - if she changes the names of the characters and the settings, the quality still isn't good enough to be published. And if she does rewrite the whole thing, it wouldn't become a success because it's a total Bridget Jones ripoff.

So, yeah, wtf is up with that. But yeah - Cassie's a ridiculous girl. So.

[bloodrebel333.livejournal.com]

I think this deserves an entry of its own. It's very informative and interesting.