Not a good start.

[erastes]

God - the hayfever was dreadful yesterday, my eyes were like boiled eggs, and running so badly (along with nose,) it looked like I was crying all day. Horrible. As you know I don't like taking chemicals unless it's absolutely necessary, but today I'm going out to get a wodge of Optrex products - apparently there's something you spray over closed eyes, which sounds just what I need. Strangely, there's no itchy throat, and little sneezing, so I'm grateful for small mercies.

The swifts are finally back - a little later than usual. Regular readers will remember that my horrible gamekeeping neighbours pulled their swift nest down and put up a small kite in the eaves to deter them from nesting there again. But the birds are back - I wish they'd nest in my eaves, it's just the same sort of house, and more in the shade.

I spotted this this morning, on my trawl around the publishers sites to see if I'd missed any historicals and I'd like to know your opinions on it, seeing as most of my readers are readers of historical fiction, gay or otherwise:

Dreamspinner Press presents Timeless Dreams: stories of M/M romance in historical settings.

While reaction to same-sex relationships throughout time and across cultures has not always been positive, these stories celebrate M/M love in a manner that may address, minimize, or ignore historical stigma. You can visit the rough and tumble Old West, travel the ancient kingdoms of desert sheikhs, see the black and red lacquer of the Far East, or dance in dramatic Regency England. No matter where or when, in the romantic worlds of Timeless Dreams, our heroes always live happily ever after.

Where does that leave "Speak its Name"? Does this mean that I can't review them? It seems to me that I can't, or at least, I can't then point out that "this or that fact" is inaccurate, because they've already made it clear that the books aren't going to adhere to historical facts.

Personally, I think it's depressing, and actually insulting to gay men who lived in historical times, to treat them like Ken dolls. I know that many heterosexual historicals are (to be polite) "light on accuracy" - but at least they don't deliberately FANFARE it. "Read Mills and Boon historicals - History? We don't need no Steenken history."

*depressed* I've worked really really hard on this genre, and this is a bit of a body blow. I'm sure they'll be really popular too.

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Comments

[vashtan.livejournal.com]

*hugs* Yeah. Just gloss over the pain and sell Crusades-flavoured cotton candy.

[chris-smith-atr.livejournal.com]

have a giant hug.

[sleveen.livejournal.com]

There's no accounting for taste, even crappy taste, but the good news is that working hard to get things right is its own reward - and people do notice. One of the things I am very proud of is my research, and people notice that, as they notice yours, so never mind the bollocks, as they say. :-)

[mylodon.livejournal.com]

You could do a sort of 'Why we won't review them' post.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I think I will, anyway, to be honest.

[anderyn.livejournal.com]

I will say as a reader that if I know someone isn't going to at least TRY to get the history right, I won't look at their books (unless I'm willing to read it as a fantasy). So bleah for this publisher.

[lee-rowan.livejournal.com]

I'm going to be Granny Weatherwax for just a minute, here.

There's nothing to be depressed about, Miss. No matter how hard you work to do something properly, you can't force other people to care about it as much as you do, much less write as carefully as you do.

Mills-Boone is the McDonalds of romantic fiction. Lots of people like McDonalds. You can't make 'em eat low-fat food.

End of lecture.

Don't forget, this is a scattergun blurb. It's entirely possible that some of the writers who send their work to this publisher are going to do the homework and do it right. Before Mark offered to publish my stuff, I was considering this press as a possible alternative to staying at Samhain. Linden Bay used to be the leader in m/m historical... and it isn't there anymore. Samhain has yet to prove whether it will fill that niche.

The can't-be-arsed to do research, who-cares-look-at-teh-pretty-costume style of story is inevitable in ANY genre. And... I think it's actually a healthy sign. It means there is enough demand for m/m historical that someone thinks they can run a whole publishing company on the premise.

Time will tell if they're right. And there will surely be some good new authors, and, inevitably, some not-so-hot.

The only thing you can do, really, is maintain the requirements for membership in The Macaronis (the books must be genuine historical, not historicalistic fantasy) and decline to review the books that aren't genuinely historical.

And... you can remind yourself that this is a case of imitating success. Do you honestly think this press would have appeared if Running Press hadn't published Transgressions & False Colors?

[erastes.livejournal.com]

*beams*

Yes. I'm a wet hen.

I love that you are doing Granny at me!

:)

[lee-rowan.livejournal.com]

Granny Weatherwax is my hero.

[chris-smith-atr.livejournal.com]

UR AWESOME.

Seriously. Granny Weatherwax!

[seraphim-grace.livejournal.com]

I think this is meant to be fantasy more than history, like the arab sheik and his street rat, doesnt need lots of politics and blah blah blah did this, it's two mounties in canada chasing a serial logger or something
with historical fiction often the history can be so fascinating that the writer infodumps without meaning to, we've done this research and it's great that X did Y and it meant that Z had to get a divorce etc, but that's not what this is about.
you'll find, because dreamspinner is good like that, that it will be sword and sandals gladiator porn but it will feature proper details just not which emperor was in power, or love across the barricades in renaissance france but not the machinations of catherine d'medici except where they directly impinge.
More or less they've started compiling a list of traditional female fantasies and asked for them, not great historical novels with gay characters. i don't see why it might be a problem, but then again i write gay fantasy

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I see what you say, and I'm not averse to those themes - not at all. What concerns me most is the "boast" - or as it seems to me, the "disclaimer" which seems to say "You can't review these books and critique the history because we've already said they aren't historically accurate." I've just never seen any range of books which have said that before. We get enough frowns from the gay male community for objectifying gay men in gay romance, I think this - which seems to me to be taking Ken dolls and dressing them up without dealing with the realities of their life.

But you are right, I will reserve judgement. If it's mounties chasing baddies I can deal - if it's regency men getting married, I'll say something.

[semioticwarrior.livejournal.com]

Gah. I will not be subbing to them.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

We'll have to see how it goes, I think!

[tamara-allen.livejournal.com]

I think they should be reviewed by the same standards any historical fiction is reviewed.

If a press wants to turn historical romance into fan fiction (no offense to fan fiction- I love it), that's certainly their perogative. But they should remain cognizant of the fact that there are expectations readers and even other writers have, that a historical should be historically correct (to the best of each writer's ability, anyway). I wonder if this press also intends to let the female characters in these novels be equals to men, independent, unchaperoned, etc. If you're going to be blatantly inaccurate in one area, why not in all?

Dumbing down continues on in this world in almost every direction you turn. There are a number of historical fiction writers, like you, who've been immovable objects against that irresistible force and I hope very much that you will all continue to be so.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I tend to agree. as i said above, I will reserve judgement, and I will see what they do. I've had a lot of respect for DS since the Logan incident, because they picked themselves up and carried on, did the right thing, and most of the books I've reviewed from them have been good.

I've bought the first one, anyway, so we'll see how it goes. thank you for the kind words!

[(Anonymous)]

*depressed* I've worked really really hard on this genre, and this is a bit of a body blow. I'm sure they'll be really popular too.

I imagine that's how some SF fans felt about your announcement that you're writing a SF book that ignores the physics and science aspects of the genre. Personally, I'm okay with Star Trek-style SF, but then I'm sure there are those who are okay with historical fantasy. IDIC.

(Posted this anon so it'd be screened, because I wasn't sure how you feel about people disagreeing with you in your LJ and I'm not trying to start a public confrontation, just point out something that maybe you hadn't considered.

~Montana
montanaharper)

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I've always made it very clear that I don't mind anyone disagreeing with me - why should I? I'm not God, lively debate welcome, as always as long as its polite.

However, space opera is a tried and tested genre, and has been written for well over 100 years, it makes no pretensions to be anything other than it is. Just because some very worthy authors go to great lengths to show how their Faster Than Light drives work, there are no such things, so there's no difference really if I don't describe how my ship's FTL drive works either - because neither exists.

What I meant was that I've never ever seen - not even with the frankly dreadful wallpaper historicals that we all know exist in the het romance world - anyone proudly announce that history can go hang - not without calling the line an A.U. - if it was labelled romantic history, or something, then that would be better. As women writers we get get enough criticism for writing gay romance as it is, to push that another stage further and just make it pretty men in pretty outfits and bah to any danger gay men actually may have felt is no better than having potatoes in cavemen times or Richard I using a fork.

[chris-smith-atr.livejournal.com]

Just like to point out that Erastes called it "Space Opera" as a sub-genre of science fiction, which (as per "soap opera") brings with it certain genre-based expectations. I guess it is the same thing here with the difference between historical's and pseudo-historicals. Both are valid, but both come with different expectations.