Happy Rebel Scum Day!

[erastes]

Do tell us when you get bored with the colony won’t you?

I was listening to a debate on Radio 4 last afternoon about the call to make Civil Ceremonies more like Church Services. As far as I could tell, the idea was “allowing” the people to have hymns and religious readings at their ceremonies to make them “more like weddings".”  Now, that’s how it was introduced, but the two men debating it seemed to be debating for the pros and cons of gay/lesbian weddings in general. Of course I’d like to see gays and lesbians married in church – and I agree with the young man on the pro side who said “if a minister is prepared to perform the ceremony then why not?” – but what I really really DON’T understand is how anyone can say “you can’t have hymns or religious readings at your civil service” – why the fuck not? Who’s going to complain? The hymn police? The con debating man (and I am ashamed that I didn’t get either of their names) really came off as an old bigot “marriage is for male and female only” blah blah and in lovely contrast the man debating for the gay/lesbian view sounded like Mr Calm-Reason in comparison.

- - - Had a shadow of the future today, Dad was fine, had a sleep, as he often does after lunch and woke not knowing pretty much anything, couldn't remember where I lived or where he lived or how long mother had been dead. It only lasted a minute and then he calmed down, but it was definitely a shape of things to come. And a bit sad making. So happy comments appreciated please!

Comments

[tiggothy.livejournal.com]

I love your subject line :-)

...I can't think of anything else vaguely-intelligent to say, sorry, as the TV programme I'm watching just switched locations to a farm and my brain went "Oooooh! Sheep!" (Apparently they were Herdwicks)

[erastes.livejournal.com]

oo - pretty sheeps!

Have you tried the Shaun the Sheep games?

[angrboda]

Happy comment: I have written 175 words of fic today!
Happy comment #2: Air here is breathable today.
Happy comment #3: lexitus has returned from the Wild Abroad (ie Norway)
Happy comment #4: I'm watching an interesting program on tv about riding on the Pride of Africa. I think I'd like a trip like that some day, fear of travel be damned.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

1. Well done!
2. Yes, here too - just as hot, but nice strong breeze!
3. Poor Norway, what did it do wrong?
4. That sound lovely. Me too. We'd have to take LOTS OF ICE though... and a bukkit. And boys to carry said ice and bukkits.

[angrboda]

3. He has been there with work since last sunday. Everything beyond the border is the Wild Abroad. :)
4. Some of the suites had bathtubs. And then a shutter that you could roll down so you could watch the view while sitting in the bathtub. If that's not well thought out I don't know what is! :D

[beckyblack]

The hymn police sounds awesome.

"We're raiding these premises on the grounds that you're allowing an unauthorised rendition of Morning Has Broken."

More like weddings, eh? Ah, so does that mean they'll have to invite some family members simply because they'll be offended if they aren't invited and will hold a grudge for the next thirty years?

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Yes, it was VERY baffling!

"Hello hello hello - we understand you've been reading Paul's letters to the Corinthians! It was you wot done it, own up!"

[moon-chylde.livejournal.com]

Hahaaa I love your header line. We are a bunch of rebel scum, aren't we?

[erastes.livejournal.com]

You are. We shall never forgive you for ruining our nice tea.

And you are STILL ruining it.

[alex-beecroft.livejournal.com]

Well, if you have hymns or readings, or you have someone asking God to bless the couple (not a priest, just anyone), then in the opinion of the early church you /have/ a wedding. And it may be that that was what the con person was worried about. You don't actually need a priest or the church liturgy at all.

Have some free books! http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/free I'm very tempted by the Boys' Book of Battles.

[gehayi.livejournal.com]

As I recall, in Quaker weddings, there's no minister at all. The couple stands up and marries themselves. And it used to be traditional for the wedding guests to sign the wedding certificate, which would then be hung on the wall of the couple's home. (I think the idea was to remind the couple during tough times of how much they'd once loved each other.)

[erastes.livejournal.com]

What's nice is that the Quakers have come forward here and have said that they are happy to do same sex weddings.

[josephine-myles.livejournal.com]

As far as I remember the ban on religious content applies to all civil ceremonies regardless of the genders of the couple. I don't remember seeing the hymn police at my civil ceremony, but the registrar was rather formidable... We solved any content issues by having two weddings, the second being a guerilla wedding ceremony in the park in Bath - we just descended, did the ceremony, and dispersed before the wedding police broke it up. By dispersed, I mean walked to the pub :)

I was wondering if it developed as a kind of retaliation at religious groups for not allowing atheist wedding ceremonies in churches - a kind of "Well if you won't let us bring our beliefs into your building, you can't bring yours in here - so there!"

[erastes.livejournal.com]

that's interesting - i didn't realise that you couldn't have religious content in a civil ceremony - even hymns - that's very unkind.

[aishabintjamil.livejournal.com]

That's astonishing. I guess that must be in Britain? It's certainly not so in the US.

In fact, in states where they're legal, a fair number of churches now have liturgy for civil union ceremonies.

Although when my wife and I had our civil union ceremony two years ago, we appreciated the fact that since it wasn't a "wedding" it was much, much harder for her mother to argue with how we wanted our ceremony to go.

The legal side was a bit silly - we'd asked a friend to get his Justice of the Peace license (which is the office in the US that allows you to perform civil ceremonies) and perform the honors. It turned out in the end that he didn't file his paperwork soon enough, and so he couldn't legally officiate. Luckily another of our guests was also a JP (because we didn't really completely trust Tom to get his act together, even with six months notice), so she signed the certificate, then he did the ceremonial bits, and none of the guests were the wiser.

It was a wonderful day. A few friends got demoted to nodding acquaintances when we discovered that they just couldn't overlook their biases long enough to come and share our joy, but the vast majority of our close friends came and were happy for us. So did our nearest family members. Lots of Beth's extended family (great-aunts and so forth) declined, but we already weren't getting along with them, so that was OK. We won all around - we have the moral high ground of having done the "right" thing and invited them, and since they didn't come we didn't have to put up with them.

We had a medieval style wedding, with a ceremony and vows we wrote ourselves. We didn't do anything overtly religious because neither of us is a Christian, and we just didn't feel like dealing with that issue with our family. I'm pretty sure that people who knew could see the pagan ceremony lurking under it, and the rest thought it was just some weird medieval thing.

Hopefully this is a happy thought for you. My sympathies on your Dad. It's hard to watch someone you love slip away like that.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you had a lovely ceremony, it sounds fabulous. I wish we had more flexibility here with our churches! Thank you and welcome!

[crawling-angel.livejournal.com]

I must have been having vibes about your post. I spend much of my time on FB these days. I am norty. I need to remember to come here too. I haz been a whirlwind in the domestic department today which is so not like me. Yes, I'm procrastinating yet again. My poor lil vampire will never sort himself out, lol.

But...like I said the vibes of this post must have come through as I have just addressed a little something to you about an hour ago. I'll post it tomorrow morning :) Betcha can't wait. hehe. *kissyface*

[erastes.livejournal.com]

awww! THANK YOU!

And join the ely meet up comm.

JOIN

and COME.

http://community.livejournal.com/ely_meet/

[chris-smith-atr.livejournal.com]

do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it

COME TO ELY

[chris-smith-atr.livejournal.com]

Can't think of any happy making comments off the top of my head, but see you've snaggled the new dragons so GO YOU.

BIG HUGS.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

*g*

[essayel.livejournal.com]

Happy thought #1- raspberries out of the garden, even if piddling little ones, taste so much better than the ones in punnets in supermarkets.

Happy thought #2 - cross species cooperation - if the cat can drag the package of meat to the edge of the table and push it off, then the dog can rip the package open and if then they can both settle down to chew at opposite ends quite amicably, it's possible human beings might learn to do the same - only hopefully not on my carpet.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

LOL - good ones, both! Thank you!

[lee-rowan.livejournal.com]

I commend your perspicacity! The reason the anti-equality proponents come across as bigots is because they ARE, and they have no reason for their obstinacy other than the knot-headed belief that what they believe is the only possible valid belief. Really, it's like the non-issue reverse of 'allowing prayer in school.' Tell me how anyone's going to keep a kid from saying, silently, "Oh, god, let me pass." What people want is to prevent any gang of bullies on a school board from forcing their personal prayers on kids who don't go to their church.

But no religion at a civil ceremony... I don't see the problem. A civil service is just the leap through legal hoops, basically = getting a wedding license. What one does at a private ceremony is what has the real meaning. Our 'illegal' Pagan handfasting at Mediawest was every bit as real for us as the Unitarian Universalist service two years later, in Canada (though I suspect the in-laws were more comfortable with a minister than a pagan priestess in ceremonial robes....)

Nobody "marries" two people--they marry each other. But Gawd Forbid "those people" should actually have, you know, prayers and hymns -- people might think they really mean all that 'love and cherish' stuff.

Twits.

Happy post: Sir Pterry has a new Tiffany Aching novel coming out this fall: I Shall Wear Midnight.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Yes, I don't see that having readings or hymns at a civil ceremony would make it an Anglican Wedding. As you say, no reason why they can't say their own prayers quietly! I was thinking about this yesterday that they don't have the same crap rules over funerals. A funeral is a funeral, and no one prevents you having a hymn at a non religious funeral.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I'll read teh Tiffany book, but i won't buy it. I have to say I loathe Tiffany with a passion.

[nagasvoice.livejournal.com]

The Rebel Scum salute with a series of raspberries--although possibly blueberries and whipping cream might be a nice addition to a fruit salad, a though provoked by the nice watermelon and cantaloupe at a friend's Rebel Scum celebration earlier today. Wait a minute, that didn't come out right at all.

[charliecochrane.livejournal.com]

Not saying it's not the shape of things to come (my mum and gran both had dementia so I sympathise entirely), but don't be too hard on the old bird. I can think of plenty of occasions I've woken in the morning or after a nap (and no drink taken!) and had no bleeding idea where I am or wtf's going on. Let's hope this was just his state exagerrating what's a'normal' thing.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I have that kind of thing happen too. I have a reoccuring thing where I'm convinced that Mum and Dad live with me and it takes me half an hour sometimes to realise it's not true. It was sad making though.