erastes: (Default)
[personal profile] erastes

I whined on my blog the other day that I couldn't blog about my WIP because of spoilers, and that's all to do with the character I'm writing.

You see, if I were to explain the kind of person he is, it would ruin the entire book (as far as I'm concerned!)

I did blog about him, at first, and I talked about him more, but as I got to know him, I realised how the plot and the characterisation was linked, and so sank back into my hermitty cave.

Thing is, that I am a pure and utter pantser. Only one plot has ever come to me almost entirely ready made, like a bolt out of the blue, and that was Muffled Drum. Everything else is like water dripping in limestone caves. OK – well perhaps not that slow, but still…

When I start, I may have an name (often not, though) like Ambrose Standish or a profession – such as Gideon Frost's in Frost Fair. But that's it. I start to write about a man who is entirely unknown to me, and I learn about him at exactly the same speed as the reader.

Some writers, I know, do a character sheet for their character before they even add a word to the manuscript – some are hugely detailed, whether he's left or right handed, what he thinks about religion, politics, what scares him, what type he's attracted to, and so on. I have tried to work like that, once or twice, but the character sheet template that I found online was quite daunting. I didn't know half that stuff about ME – let alone someone I'd invented. So I stuck with not knowing anything.

Because no characters do (nor should they) leap fully formed onto the page, you don't learn everything about them straight away. Like real life. You meet someone and you only know a tiny, tiny bit about them and your knowledge is layered on, like lacquer.

Albert Ring ran his right hand – the hand he used for writing – through his thick blond curly hair. He was naturally fidgety and impatient. He focussed his light blue eyes on his book. He moved his wide shoulders to ease them, feeling a little cramped, being six foot two in such a small space. 

Too much. And that's quite mild. I've read books as bad as that made up para.

I think that the reader should discover the character slowly, and I've found that as I write,I'm discovering the characters at exactly the same speed as the reader. When I start to write, as I said, I know almost nothing and gradually I chip away at him and I find out this about him. "Goodness, he doesn't like dancing," or "LOL he's got the most hopeless dog." Or "bloody hell, that's going to make him unlikeable." The fun is working with an unlikeable character and trying to make it work. Philip Smallwood in Mere Mortals has actually had a fair swell of empathy, and I hope that's because I've tried to explain why the poor man ended up in the situation he was in, and how. Similarly Fleury—although I admit to a fair amount of bias there. He's really NOT a nice person. 

When I was writing fanfic, I got obsessed with Lucius Malfoy. I didn't like him in the books much, he was very two-dimensional but when Jason Isaacs got hold of him he fleshed him out and he went from a rare-pairing character to a main-everyone loves Looshie character in no time at all.

However, I was fascinated by his backstory and HOW he'd got to be like that. No man (just as no horse and no dog) is born bad (subject to your opinion on nature vs nuture, ymmv) and apart from an inborn belief in the fact that wizards were the next step on the evolutionary ladder – which made a lot of sense –I wondered about him. So I wrote about him, his father, his marriage, his life-long love of Severus which goes deeper than anything else: Voldemort, Marriage, Family. I explored his relationship with his father (which I'd got pretty much right, if I remember the canon correctly) and his induction into the Death Eaters. Lucius is a pragmastist when it comes down to it—and actually a much better Slytherin than Tom Riddle ever proved to be, because against all the odds, Lucius survives. He doesn't want wholesale destruction of the Muggles because who would support the parasitic wizards?

Anyway, I digress. What I'm trying to say is that any character—no matter what they do—can be written sympathetically (see Dexter, see Jacob in "As Meat Loves Salt."  and there's no reason why the reader should like all the character's traits, either. As far as I'm concerned (and any one who's read my stuff will realise this) characters shouldn't be anywhere near approaching perfect. It's how a character deals with his flaws that make him interesting. And how others deal with them, too. There's too much perfection in gay romance. The only obstacles to lurve are external, most of the time, rather than—as in Pride and Prejudice—personality. Perhaps it because the female writers don't want to offend the gays by having them as unpleasant people, and the gay writers simply want Lovely Nice Men in their books. I don't know. I only know that Lovely Nice Men would bore me rigid.

Many people absolutely hated Rafe in Standish, and that's fine—because that's exactly what he was supposed to be. Arrogant to the nth degree, and he didn't get much better by the end of the book. Yes there was character development, but not in a "OMG YOUR LURVE HAS MADE ME A BETTER PERSON" kind of deal. He's still of the opinion that you could buy anything and everyone has a price, whether that is money, influence or threats. It's not his fault—raised in privilege like he was, and seeing both super-richness and uber-poverty he knows which he prefers and he knows how to wield it. He's never really learned that money doesn't make you happy—even at the end of the book.

So going back to the beginning, I wonder what you'll make of Harry in "I Knew Him" because he's quite the favourite character I've written so far. (But then perhaps all my characters are as I'm writing them. He's so charming, so personable, you'd want him to be your friend. But will you want to by the end of the book?  I know I would, but there are reasons why I'd probably make excuses if he called around. More than that I cannot say for spoilery reasons, but I hope he's interesting. He's grown on me, because I've let him develop, organically as he's been written, he's been a delight and a jaw dropping surprise at times, but that's really the best thing about writing, isn't it?

Do share your character building with me, do you start with a fully formed guy, or does he come to life under your fingers? does he change as you write, from what you originally planned?

I was going to do Coaches too, but BAH! already too long. I'll cover that, hopefully, in H is for 'Orses.

any suggestions for D?

Date: 2011-06-13 06:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gehayi.livejournal.com
D is for Description.

Similarly Fleury—although I admit to a fair amount of bias there.

Actually, now that I've seen the Horrible Histories version of Dick Turpin, I see what you were going for with Fleury. A thorough rotter, but even I can spot that he's wicked attractive and has a great voice.

He's never really learned that money doesn't make you happy—even at the end of the book.



Seriously, I've never been convinced that money DOESN'T make you happy. I'm much happier when I have some, I know that. And I've certainly never seen rich people rushing to get rid of it because it makes them miserable.

Perhaps it because the female writers don't want to offend the gays by having them as unpleasant people, and the gay writers simply want Lovely Nice Men in their books. I don't know. I only know that Lovely Nice Men would bore me rigid.

Perfect characters of any stripe are tedious, really. Give me a character with flaws (or who is massively fucked up, or both) and that's a character I can work with!

Date: 2011-06-13 06:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] erastes.livejournal.com
I agree with you actually. Just give me a couple of billion and let me prove I can't be happy. then I'll shut up.

:)

Love your icon.

Date: 2011-06-13 06:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] essayel.livejournal.com
Death - as in character death? How do you handle it and do you grieve afterwards?

Bad boys are often attractive. It's how they get away with it. The trick is to show them being bad and still retain the reader's sympathy for them. I liked how you managed that with Fleury because he was plainly an absolute horror if he was crossed.

I'm a planner, but that's just part of my character. I'm far too anxious to start a journey without a fair idea of the route I want to follow on the way. That said my characters make detours and sometimes I have to alter my plans a little to get where I want to go. The beginning and end of my 2 Bees story was sketched out in autumn 2008 in response to a call for subs from Lethe so I've had a long time to think about the middle. But I didn't expect Philon to be so calm and self assured. And in my pirate story I didn't expect Kit Penrose to be quite such a self righteous brat or Griffin to be quite so needy.

I've used character sheets but often don't fill in all the fields. They are a good crutch.

Date: 2011-06-13 06:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] erastes.livejournal.com
I started answering with "I don't think i've killed anyone" and then that's really not true. LOL.

I was sad in Mere Mortals--but there wasn't any way around that. One person I regretted, the other Ididn't. and the character in Transgressions--well, soemthing had to happen to him.

The clincher will be what people think of Junction X. Not really hidden that there's no HEA--seeing how it's set in the 60's and surburban england, not likely to have a HEA... and yes, i cried buckets with that one.

Date: 2011-06-13 06:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gehayi.livejournal.com
Thanks! It's by [livejournal.com profile] miss_jaffacake. She has a ton of icons here, including Charles II, the King of Bling.

Date: 2011-06-13 07:00 pm (UTC)
beckyblack: (Default)
From: [personal profile] beckyblack
I'm a planner, but even when I think I've planned a character out, they often change when I start to write. They only come to life once they are walking and talking.

The character sheets can be useful, but I rarely fill them out entirely before writing. I fill in what I have got for that character already. Maybe think about what the answer to some of the other questions might be for that character - so they can be good at generating ideas that way. Then as I write I try to remember to add things in I've just decided on while writing, so I don't go and contradict it later!

Date: 2011-06-13 07:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] erastes.livejournal.com
it's fabulous to watch them evolve though isn't it? I think if I only ever wrote "a to b" scenes without that magic of character development I wouldn'tbother to write at all.

I should do a modicum of character sheeting--i say that EVERY novel, so at least i can keep his name constant...You wouldn't believe how many of my characters who have changed names - some times more than once...

Date: 2011-06-13 07:10 pm (UTC)
beckyblack: (sweet zombie jesus)
From: [personal profile] beckyblack
I do like a good unlikeable yet sympathetic character. I used to love Chloe in 24, back when I watched that. They made her unrelentingly unlikeable and yet someone you'd totally want on your side. Or they can have that mix of "total jerk you can't help finding charming", like Sawyer on Lost. So easy to swing from "God, I love him," to "I cannot believe he just did something so terrible!"

The novel I'm about to start editing I may have the opposite problem. The heroes are the nicest of all the guys I've written so far. :D Not a malicious bone in their bodies. But I hope I've managed to made them be annoying and jerky sometimes too. Everyone can be a bit of a tool on a bad day, and they have some very bad days!

Date: 2011-06-13 08:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] josephine-myles.livejournal.com
I do a little bit of character planning (although not as scientific as that sounds) before starting, but mostly I discover the characters as I write them. Keeps you on your toes, that way, and they stay interesting.

And the flawed ones are definitely the most fascinating! They're the characters who stick around in your memory - not the bland nice boys.

Date: 2011-06-13 09:32 pm (UTC)
ext_7009: (Bando - wisteria)
From: [identity profile] alex-beecroft.livejournal.com
I keep trying to be organized and make character sheets, but I find that the only result of that is to block myself from doing anything at all. I like to know what the plot is (more or less) before I start, but to discover the characters as I go along. This does often mean that I don't know basic things like when their birthday is or even how old they are. But character sheets don't start the characters talking to me, and until they do start talking, I can't figure out who they are.

Date: 2011-06-14 08:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] erastes.livejournal.com
Nod nod - that makes sense. LOL - you know their birthdays! I'm impressed.

Date: 2011-06-14 08:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] erastes.livejournal.com
I'm impressed how much planning people do! Yes, bad boys are great. :D

Date: 2011-06-14 08:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] erastes.livejournal.com
Yes - it's the same with Jaime Lannister in Game of Thrones - most people are probably seeing him as a pure villain--he did throw an 8 year old out of a window after all -- but the way he develops over thebook is so well done.

I think many authors don't like to have bad traits for their heroes and that can be annoying--i read one recently where the two guys were just NICE all the time and I wanted to die of sugar poisoning!

Date: 2011-06-14 05:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sandra-lindsey.livejournal.com
I prefer discovering characters as I go along too, although with the slow pace at which I write the words down (compared to the fact I'm mulling over the various characters and plots any chance I get) I often know more than the reader will know at the point of the story I'm writing... if my phrasing there makes sense?

Date: 2011-06-14 05:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] feed-your-muse.livejournal.com
I do a little bit of planning so that I know what they look like, what their dominant personality trait is etc. but if their character changes as I write and what's coming out on the page fits then I leave it as is. I tried doing the mega-character-sheet thing and stalled when I couldn't fill bits in, so I gave up on that.

Merry

Date: 2011-06-14 06:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stevie-carroll.livejournal.com
I'm another one that discovers the characters as I go along. It's more fun that way.

I'm enjoying Harry so far, by the way.

Date: 2011-06-14 06:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] erastes.livejournal.com
Oh! That's a relief. :D although - has he been to the Polo yet? Thank you!

Date: 2011-06-14 06:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] erastes.livejournal.com
Yes, that was the problem with me, too. I thought "gah! i don't know this stuff!!"

Date: 2011-06-14 06:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] erastes.livejournal.com
oh yes, makes sense - definitely, I suppose I know more than the reader about what he's going to do -but then it makes me laugh that they don't always react how they are expected to!

Date: 2011-06-14 08:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stevie-carroll.livejournal.com
He's been to the polo. I'm interested to see where he goes next with this character development.

Date: 2011-06-14 08:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] erastes.livejournal.com
bwahahaha. me too.

Date: 2011-06-14 08:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tiggothy.livejournal.com
D for Dramatic Licence?

Date: 2011-06-14 08:37 pm (UTC)
beckyblack: (Default)
From: [personal profile] beckyblack
Yeah, I think sometimes writers forget that the person can be nice, and a genuinely good egg all around, but that doesn't mean they have to act nice all the time. Everyone gets grouchy, or does thoughtless things sometimes, not because of any kind of evilness, but just because they're human and weak and flawed sometimes. Charlie Cochrane pulls it off nicely in her Cambridge Fellows books, where the guys are just adorable and definitely nice guys, but still capable of behaving badly sometimes.

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