dance with dragons full of homophobia this time!

[erastes]

although Westeros and the other lands had no specific anti-laws to homosexuality, we always knew that it wasn't "quite the thing" – people would laugh at men who "weren't quite manly enough" to have women and who resorted to the pleasures of male flesh. (UNLESs of course you were very powerful, like Renly and then you got away with it by having a "beard" anyway>)
But we haven't had one instance of male comradeship in that vein, in this book – in fact there'S 3 very powerful anti-gay sections 1. Satin is Jon's steward and is reviled (despite having been one of the fighters who fought off the wildlings and very well too, thank you very much) and Jon is accused of keeping him as his "catamite." 2. A Beardless Maester iS chucked in the sea (not for being homosexual but not being a good maester) and previous to that he complained that he'd been gang raped by teh crew. He was given a knife to kill himself with and later threatened with having the entire crew rape him if he didn't do what he was told. 3. when a slave ship of prostitutes were picked up all the men and boys were wrapped in chains and thrown into the sea.

Now, I know—I'm not stupid—that these are the actions of the characters, but there is literally no balance to this this time and it's grating on me.

But then, the whole book is. Watch out for a large, spoilery and very pissed off review coming soon. and no, i  still haven't finishedthe damnedthing.

Comments

[paragraphs.livejournal.com]

Hmmm.

I started reading Dance while on the way to the UK last week (still here) and found it difficult to get into. I'll keep plugging along, but right now I'm enjoying Mira Grant's DEADLINE far more. Something about zombies... :)

This is the first I've heard about these problems (and I do view them as problems, GRRM). Hmmm.

Hmmm.

Look forward to your future post.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't mind if there was a tad of balance, showing a homosexual/bisexual lord in Meereen, perhaps (there is a homophrodite but s/he's a slave) but there's nothing except hate. It is getting better, but it's taken 80 percent of the book to get there. of 1000 pages.

[gehayi.livejournal.com]

Now, I know—I'm not stupid—that these are the actions of the characters, but there is literally no balance to this this time and it's grating on me.

It grates on me, too.

It grates particularly because there's no differentiation this time. Remember Dorne? That lovely southern kingdom where Prince Oberyn Martell came from? The prince known as the Red Viper, the deadliest fighter in seven kingdoms and a VERY out bisexual with an equally bisexual mistress? The kingdom where being bi is the norm?

Or remember the Summer Isles, where sex is practically a sacrament, and where boys and girls alike volunteer to serve in pleasure houses for a few years because to them, giving people physical pleasure is a holy thing to be celebrated?

Or Viserys Targaryen who, through Magister Illyrio, gave his sister three handmaids--one as a bedmate--for a wedding present, and no one gave any indication they thought this was anything but an expensive gift?

This time around, there's no indication that the cultures differ at all, or that nations might have varied attitudes about sex. We've gone from diverse to monolithic.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

And the two brothers who guarded Shae's brothel, had eyes and cocks for no-one but another and no-one really cared. Several lords (Brynden for one) who are alledgely homosexual.

as i was driving home (ranting in my head) I suddenly realised that love wasn't a theme with this book, in fact anyone who does have a nice love/relationship (Edd/Cat, Renly/Loras, Dany/Drogo) end up dying.

[elin-gregory.livejournal.com]

Do you think maybe this reflects some pressure from his straight male fans who have finally wised up to some of the content gehayi mentions? If so, what a tremendous pity.

I feel no guilt now for waiting until the books comes out in paperback. I'm not buying a hard back that causes you to use the 'annoyed finch' icon!

[erastes.livejournal.com]

God, I hope not! That would be absolutely appalling. It would make GRRM look like a complete arse--he could easily have excised all mention of homosexuality rather than having everyone going on an anti-homo rampage.

[oceankitty1.livejournal.com]

The fact that when you open the pages of either, if it's a good one, what happens is that you are taken to a different world.

You are so right! I've been an avid fantasy fan for most of my life and I've always bought historical fiction when I wanted to read something non fantasy.
I just don't find it that fascinating to read about stuff that goes on in our time. Get enough of that from the news, don't I?

[oceankitty1.livejournal.com]

Darn. Can't seem to get that quote button to work. Consider yourself quoted

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Aw - thanks! :D