erastes

Exactly. People say "wah wah wah - i love ebooks because they are so much cheaper than print"

Bullshit. Because they can get them uber-cheap (free) more like.

From:

ggymeta.wordpress.com (from livejournal.com)

You know, in manga I often hear the argument that 'we share these files because they will never be licensed in the states' and many sharers get away with that...but eBooks in English? They're stealing. Pure and simple. Will share at GGY.

From:

I feel rotten because I download stuff - who doesn't - movies and shows, and I suppose I think to myself that I'm a bloody hypocrite. I try and use "yeah but so and so director/actor is a millionaire" arguments but i still feel rotten.

From:

joyful-molly.livejournal.com

I admit I don't feel rotten for downloading TV programmes or documentaries that I could never purchase because they will never be available on DVD or for legal download. But if I can buy it, I do it.

From:

ggymeta.wordpress.com (from livejournal.com)

Yeah, but these eBooks - and we both know that authors don't get paid a one-time fee upon publishing. It's dependent on royalties and writer's don't earn royalties when it comes to eBook sharing. In manga, scans are shared and at 3 out of five downloaders will pick up the print copies of the book--with eBooks, it's a done deal. Once it's on your hard drive, there's no incentive to buy. :(

With films and television, it's like this: the actors, director, and crew have been paid. The only person[s] that lose because of illegal file sharing are the writer and the producer, because they continue to earn as the film is licensed, and sold. People tend to think they're sticking it to the motion picture companies so...it's ok to download because they're only hurting Universal or Disney or MGM. It's not always that simple. :( Before the strike, production companies found a way to recoup their losses by finding news ways to syndicate their properties via DVD and online broadcasting--sadly, they expected writers to still be happy with the old contracts that didn't compensate for these formats--and so, strikerino. :)

From:

that's true. I admit to having scanned copies of books (print books) but I always have the print versions too.

From:

granamyr.livejournal.com

Since I have an exact number of downloads (now up to 30), and screenshots to prove it, as well as a state (718 area code is New York), I intend to pursue the providers in court for those lost royalties. I've already contacted the New York Small Claims Court Mediation Division, but don't expect to hear back from them until Tuesday at the earliest.

From:

zamaxfield.livejournal.com

It's really odd, but while I am likely to hand off a print book I've finished to a friend or family member who admires it, I never, EVER send an ebook file to someone. I feel just the opposite. But that's me. I realize that an ebook is likely to be proliferated in an epic way, where my little print books are likely to only languish around one person's house before being handed off or given away or taken to the friends of the library bin or the used book store.

From:

zamaxfield.livejournal.com

**I have to admit to buying ebooks to send to my mom or something. But that's different. I'm far more conscientous about those, though, than print books.

From:

Exactly. A print book simply can't steal from the author in the same measure. It can go to a friend, then another, then a stranger, get lost, end up in a charity shop, wander around on book crossing - maybe have ten owners in a paperback's life - (One owner if that owner is me) but an ebook? Unlimited stealage.

From:

anderyn.livejournal.com

Hmmm. I don't think I have EVER shared an e-book. It's mine, it's on my hard drive, and that's that. (Well, I might tell the husband or daughter there's one on the computer, but they don't actually LIKE e-books...) I buy mine legally, or download those which have been offered free by the publisher (thank you Tor!), but I will not download one from a torrent. I can't do torrents, actually, and wouldn't if I could.

From:

I think it is important to keep in mind that print books are not entirely secure, either. Think of those disclaimers you read, "if you see this book without a cover..." Those books get sold and someone is making money, but it is not the publisher or the author. Books get remaindered, wholesaled, lost and SOLD without a penny going back to the publisher and authors as royalties. Trouble is, how do you track those? I agree that running around the Internet and trying to capture/shut down these illegal/pirated versions is a little bit like playing "whack a mole" but at least you can see the mole to whack.

Ebooks are sold with security (DRM). Yes, that means if you buy a book and enjoy it, you can't share it with a friend. It also means that someone with less altruistic motives can't share it with the world. There are tradeoffs.

Leslie

From:

Yes, but how much is one print book sold on going to lose me? Not much - I get 10 percent of the profits of Standish - about 50pence - and if a book is passed on it's not going far. But an ebook gives me about 37% of the royalties - and if I'm downloaded by 1000 people? Not nice.

Which ebooks are sold with DRM? If they are - how are they shareable? I've got plenty of ebooks which I have bought and there's nothing to stop me emailing them to 1000 friends (if I had more than two)

From:

Kindle books are encrypted. You can only share a Kindle book with another Kindle owner WHO IS ON YOUR ACCOUNT. You can't share with a Kindle-owning friend who is not on your account.

Mobipocket books are encrypted. Without a PID (personal identifier) which is linked to the book and the device it is to be read on, a book can't be read.

Fictionwise sells encrypted books (they call them secure).

The big problem are PDFs (and lots of small publishers sell books as PDFs). They are, by their very nature, an open format and anyone can share them. And unfortunately, people do.

Bristlecone Pine Press only sells books in encrypted, secure formats. Yes, I got some grief for that business decision but the tradeoffs, to me, are worth it.

Leslie

From:

I'm sorry Leslie, but you aren't entirely right. I don't know anything about Kindle or mobipocket as I don't have a reader but I buy all my books from Fictionwise and allromanceebooks and they are very very shareable. So it seems to me that anyone who wants to share files only needs to buy the pDFs.

If these files are so secure, how are all these illegal sites offering them?

From:

Fictionwise sells secure and "multiple format" ebooks. The latter include PDFs and are shareable, as you have said. They do have the caveat that they hope their purchasers are honest and "do the right thing" (ie, not share) but that is not really doing much to protect the authors and publishers. That is one reason I am leery about getting accepted as a publisher with Fictionwise. Do I really want a distributor that is going to make it easy for my books to be stolen? Even if they do sell 40,000 books a month?

Leslie

From:

This is response to your first comment...if a book is passed on that presumes that it was purchased legitimately. But here in the US, unfortunately, lots of books go "missing." There was a segment on NPR a few weeks ago about the whole (ridiculous) distribution system in this country which was basically set up during the Depression as a way to get people to read and to provide books cheaply (since everyone was broke). Even though the Depression is long over, the distribution system is still in place. The upshot is that the only people who are making any money are the truckers who are busy carting books from the wholesalers to the warehouse to the bookstore to the warehouse to the pulper to the warehouse and God knows where else. In all this movement, books get lost, misplaced, and inventory is not well tracked. Bottom line, if I go to Wal-Mart or Sam's Club and buy a book, there is no guarantee that the publisher will see a penny from my purchase and neither will the author. And I thought I was buying the book "legally."

I realize you are in the UK, Erastes, so the system may be different there but here in the US--if anyone believes that all print book sales are carefully accounted for and all authors are receiving the monies that are due them, they are seriously deluded. That's my take on it, at least.

Leslie

(deleted comment)

From:

Thanks for this - will let others know!

I wasn't aware I had given any personal views on the EAA author group, Katrina. However, I did on my personal LJ, because yanno - my LJ. I wasn't dissing the authors, hun - simply the pirates, and the lack of security.

I was simply giving warnings to ebook published authors (of which I am one) so they can be aware that their files are being pirated.

Surely highlighting my concerns about the lack of security is more likely to push authors who want to be published exclusively in this medium to be a little more cautious about the format they are published in? Or to push esellers to (like Bristlecone Pine Press is, and I applaud them for doing) only selling in encrypted formats?

I know that I will look carefully at the format of books that I'm published in in future - Standish is going on Kindle, I think - but having done about two minutes research, it seems that you can convert mobi/kindle files to text pretty easily.

(deleted comment)

From:

tharain.livejournal.com

over the next few decades, we all eventually be "strictly e".

Woo, lord, I hope not. I don't want to have to stop reading. I can't really read books properly on screen. I need the artifact. Luddite and dinosaur, I suppose.

(deleted comment)

From:

tharain.livejournal.com

caffeine, nerves, and the lack of lunch

This is my usual State of Being. =-D

I want to know, now, what my publishers intend to do about piracy issues.

Good idea. I was just floored by the number of authors on that list, and I know nothing about the subject at all.

From:

Regarding converting mobi/kindle files...I think the reverse is true. There are ways to convert other files (.lit, pdfs, .doc, .txt) to Kindle and Mobipocket format. I am not aware of people who have successfully converted (hacked) in the other direction. In particular, Kindle files. There are some users who are quite irate that they can't share their Kindle purchases with friends--so if there was a way to unencrypt the files, I think someone would have found it and shared it by now. I think Amazon has done a pretty good job with their DRM and thus are protecting authors and publishers and ensuring folks do get their fair share.

Leslie

From:

m-barnette.livejournal.com

I hate to burst your bubble, but if it can be encrypted, someone out there in cyberland has a hack to remove the encryption. Pirates usually know where to find the info to kill the encryption--usenet comes to mind, as does peer to peer sharing-- then they upload the books to a download site, or offer them peer to peer where none of us are seeing them.

From:

Absolutely. People make a hobby about getting around these things.

From:

Hi Katrina,

Just for anyone who might be on that Media File list, here is the email to report abuse and violations of terms of service:

abuse@mediafire.com

Leslie

From:

ggymeta.wordpress.com (from livejournal.com)

OMG - she's scanned whole yaoi novels from DMP and zipped them up. That's sharing licensed content--not even scanslators of BL manga go there. :/

What an ass.

From:

jessewave.livejournal.com

For every illegal download site there are thousands of readers who buy their books from the publishers and don't share them (myself included). The only free books I receive are from publishers or authors for review purposes. Isn't this similar to the downloading of music which many people don't believe is a crime? If publishers don't want to make their books available in e-book format they are losing a huge market and the potential for their authors to establish a significant fan base. E-books are much cheaper than print books and that's one reason why I buy them, plus I don't want to kill any more trees or buy additional bookshelves.

From:

Oh I know that there are many many (and most) readers are honest and buy their books - but - as granamyr points out below, she's lost $50 just from that one site alone - when you add it up, how many thousands of pounds are we losing? It means nothing to someone like JKR - but to someone like me who worries if the gas bill is going to be covered this month, that $50 could mean the difference between paying it, or not.

From:

I'm not crazy about ebooks myself, even though all my books are Ebooks. But I do think they're the way things are going, and it makes a lot of sense. If I really love an author's work, though, I want the book in print. Killing trees isn't the whole picture--paper can be made from other forms of cellulose, such as hemp. And the electricity required to read an e-book still leaves a carbon footprint. We need solar-powered ebooks -- now that would be earth-friendly.

OTOH -- I think e-books should be resalable, the same as a used print book. I've been too broke most of my life to buy all the books I want brand new -- and I would rather someone buy my books used than not read 'em at. If I buy a book in any format and find that I don't like it -- yes, I'm going to stop reading that person's work, but I don't see any reason I should not be able send that one copy to someone else, then delete it from my hard drive. (This has happened often enough that I seldom buy books I'm not pretty sure I'll enjoy.)

I didn't get the impression that Erastes was speaking officially--and I do not feel endangered by her views on e-books. The security sucks. And we all know that half the fun for hackers is getting around programs intended to make files uncrackable, so this isn't a problem that's going to go away. Trying to prevent someone from raising legitimate questions just because she's also doing a big, thankless task is unfair. This isn't EAA -- it's her personal journal.

From:

amandayoungsays.livejournal.com

I wouldn't mind my ebooks being resold if there was some way to make sure people were only selling what they'd paid for. However, if you take into account people like the one I recently found trying to resell 100 copies of one my books for her own profit, then I doubt that's possible.

From:

I know; still, the e-books do sell and I think that a lot of readers are honest or we'd never get any royalties at all.

I

From:

amandayoungsays.livejournal.com

I agree. I may be naive, but I'd like to think most readers are honest. It's the few bad apples that ruin it for everyone else. :(

From:

I don't know if I have a problem with this - were they hard copies? Standish is often on ebay, and I've sold second hand books myself on ebay and boot sales and the like. As long as the seller has bought them from my publisher, then I'm happy enough - I got the royalties from those sales - I don't expect royalties from second hand books. But I don't consider the piracy of ebooks in the same light as second hand books beacuse one copy of a paperback is only ever going to be ONE copy of a paperback - whereas one ebook can translate into 100000s of free copies.

From:

amandayoungsays.livejournal.com

They were ebooks. Apparently the person in question bought the adobe version of one of my novellas. She was then trying to take that one copy amnd resell it 100 times via an ebay-like website.

From:

Ouch - that's NOT nice. Ebay certainly should have spotted that.

Grrr.

From:

granamyr.livejournal.com

28 illegal downloads of Dead to the World amounts to $196, %40 of which belongs to me. Believe me, I intend to pursue this.

From:

I think that's the way to look at it - when you see stark figures like that - and believe me I've seen "1000" downloads on some sites - it really brings it home how much people are losing from stolen royalties. In an ideal world you should be able to reclaim these royalties from the site's owners.

From:

koala-nest.livejournal.com

Excuse me. My mother is Amber Green.

Since you've posted this, she's lost over fifty downloads to that 4Share site. That's a good chunk of change.

Do her a favor? Get rid of that shit. She deserves what she can get from those downloads, and this really isn't helping her at all. I'm certain you mean well, but there are those that don't.

From:

I would appreciate it if - if you troll someone's site on behalf of someone who is quite capable of speaking for themselves - you kept a civil tongue in your head. Lively debate is welcome here, not abuse.

If you mother wishes to stop the illegal downloads then she needs to follow the prescribed method to do so. I'm the director of an erotic author's association and it's my (unpaid, thankless) task to help stamp out these thieves. I cannot personally write to these download sites because any reportage of copyright theft must only be made by an author or the publisher of the stolen material but if every author approached them they'd have an impact.

I suggest you take your insults and give them to people who deserve it, let your mother fight her own battles and stop harassing people who are trying to help.

From:

koala-nest.livejournal.com

Sorry for the late reply, I've been busy.

I don't see where I was being insulting. I honestly believe you mean well, but posting the actual sites is acting like a door to these people. If it's my language, sorry.

She asked me to step in because you have no anonyposting, and she has no LJ.

From:

I have to ask -- have you monitored that site before and after the announcement was made? Were you aware that the site existed before this announcement? If not, how can you be certain that this post exacerbated the problem?

More to the point, do you have a suggestion as to how Erastes can notify 40+ authors whose emails she may or may not have readily available, without making a public post of the problem? I'm not being snarky here; this is a huge problem for many people besides your mother. If you've got a better idea of how to get the word out without attractign vultures, I think all of us who are trying to make a living with ebooks would be happy to hear it.

From:

koala-nest.livejournal.com

I honestly don't look at this kind of thing. Erotic fiction, especially things my mother has a hand in? It's not my thing, you understand? She asked me to step in.

I'm assuming a good chunk of the people who publish their things online have A) Websites, or B) Websites that their publishers own. One could list the names of the sites here, google the authors, send e-mails to their pages and publishers, and find some way to hand out Cease and Desist orders.

Yes, it's a lot of work, but some things just aren't easy.

From: