erastes: (Default)
[personal profile] erastes

I wish i had a camera now so I could take a picture. Six inches of snow and gorgeous sunshine. PERFICK.

However that means no Dad today, the main roads are undoubtedly gritted but I have 3 miles of country roads to navigate before the main road so I’ll go tomorrow instead. I have food drink and catfood so I can manage for a day.

I have to say that I’m getting hugely sick of the NIMBY gay-lit Queens who are going all Betsey Trotwood over the donkeys on their lawn.  On the article on the LA Weekly there’s one particularly speshul snowflake who has this – among other moronic and deliberately inflammatory--things – to say.

Your writers are pretending to be gay men -- which they are not. These FRAUDS are poaching on the exceedingly hard-won territory of gay literature. As a result a lot of serious writing by gay men is being swept to one side while this psycho-sexual hen party has its way with my life and the lives of those I've loved. I have nothing but contempt for this.

Oh way to be professional David. There’s always one.  I’m grateful for level heads such as Teddy Pig’s.

image

Date: 2009-12-20 11:29 am (UTC)
angrboda: Viking style dragon head finial against a blue sky (Sniff the plotbunny)
From: [personal profile] angrboda
That is one cross wabbit in that picture.

(Don't actually have a plotbunny, but it's a bunny so it counts)

Date: 2009-12-20 11:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] erastes.livejournal.com
It's David Sewell Bunny.

Date: 2009-12-20 11:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] angelabenedetti.livejournal.com
This David doesn't seem to get that gay literature and m/m romance and erotica are two very different markets, with very little overlap in either writers or readers. It's like Margaret Atwood complaining that all those genre SF writers are crowding her out; those markets don't compete in any significant way. [sigh]

Angie

Date: 2009-12-20 11:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] erastes.livejournal.com
I don't know - I certainly read all types, and most people I know do too, but I agree with your general point, there's certainly room for all aspects!!

Date: 2009-12-20 11:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] angelabenedetti.livejournal.com
Right, I read the other occasionally too, and know a few other people who do, but only a few. The Venn diagram doesn't really overlap that much, at least in my experience.

Angie

Date: 2009-12-20 11:40 am (UTC)
jl_merrow: (Got mittens)
From: [personal profile] jl_merrow
I suspect that you may not even be a rabbit LOL!

Would like to see him support that statement about his writing "being swept to one side"!

Date: 2009-12-20 11:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] erastes.livejournal.com
Exactly. I'd say "what writing?" He seems to be a pundit more than anything else. If he was some kind of expert in gay fiction I'd take more notice, but he just seems to be a wagon jumper.

Date: 2009-12-20 05:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lee-rowan.livejournal.com
If he's a pundit, it's on the level of Fox News' O'Reilly--someone who can't do anything much except snipe at those who can.

Date: 2009-12-20 05:58 pm (UTC)
ext_7009: (Default)
From: [identity profile] alex-beecroft.livejournal.com
He's a gay film critic (and a critic of gay films), and writes biographies afaik. So no, it's not as if we're any threat to him at all.

Date: 2009-12-20 12:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rwday.livejournal.com
Oh, good grief. He's angry about AIDS and the Obama administration so he's ranting on a thread about M/M romance writers? Maybe I'm dense, but I honestly don't see the connection. Romance novels, straight or gay, have about as much connection to the real world as Star Trek does to the astronaut program.

If he's upset that his literary masterpieces aren't selling (which is how it sounds to me), maybe he ought to look in a mirror and consider what the reading public wants. If all m/m romance disappeared tonight, those readers are NOT going to turn to his "Raised by Sock Puppets' or whatever it was. Sheesh.

Though I would like to go to the psycho-sexual hen party - it sounds like fun.

Date: 2009-12-20 01:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] crawling-angel.livejournal.com
Romance novels, straight or gay, have about as much connection to the real world as Star Trek does to the astronaut program.

*snort* This ^

Though I would like to go to the psycho-sexual hen party - it sounds like fun.

Only if I can be the honorary cock, lol. I even have appropriate iconage, see.

Date: 2009-12-20 02:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] valarltd.livejournal.com
Just to be contrary, do you KNOW how many astronauts and engineers went into the space program after watching Star Trek? Nichelle Nichols and a few fans launched "Save the Space Shuttle" letter writing campaigns which kept the program going by convincing congress there was enough public interest to keep funding it. The show itself may not connect to NASA but the viewers do.

Romance is the same. It influences us in ways we never expect. It teaches us about manhood, womanhood, heteronormativity and gaytopia, depending on what we read.


On topic: I want to know how two people with the names "Angelia" and "Naomi" are "pretending to be gay men." We don't write gay literature. We write genre fiction, which is SO not literature. The people who pick up our horror novel or swashbuckler may or may not pick up his Raised by Sock Puppets. But I can guarantee his readers will turn their noses up at something called Curse of the Pharaoh's Manicurists.

There's always one pearl-clutcher. Sometimes a lot more. This is exactly the behavior that got the sheet-sniffing test added to the Lambda Awards.

Date: 2009-12-20 03:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rwday.livejournal.com
Yes, I'm familiar with the impact of Star Trek, but however inspirational the series was, and whatever actions its stars have taken in support of the space program, it's not a realistic view of space exploration any more than any romance novel is a realistic view of human relations.

And of course you're not pretending to be gay men and nobody with half a brain thinks you are or that you have to be in order to tell a good story.

Date: 2009-12-20 04:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] valarltd.livejournal.com
You'd be surprised how many people think romance novels are an accurate assessment of human relationships.

A lot of people don't really understand the concept of fiction. (my own mother thinks Air Force One has a secret escape pod, after all she saw it in at least 2 movies) And there are a lot of women who live lives of vague disappointment that real men aren't these chiseled gods that sweep them off their feet into the throes of pasion. They KNOW better on a surface level, but a part of them is still disappointed.

The last line says it all: I tell stories. I tell stories about anything that seizes my fancy or is needed. It might be Norse gods or the tale of my second son and the bananaphone or a Robin Hood ballad or even an unconventional love story. It's all the same. And they're all true, whether they happened or not.

Date: 2009-12-20 04:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lee-rowan.livejournal.com
You'd be appalled at how many people seem to have learned all their social skills from soap operas. I had to work with one of these drama queens many years ago, and trying to train her to do expediting and production scheduling (and do my own work as well) while she had the phone tied up with her two boyfriends and her justifiably suspicious husband... She was fired, eventually, thank ghod. But the overall level of in-touch-with-reality is sadly low for many people.

Date: 2009-12-20 01:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] crawling-angel.livejournal.com
That wabbit should watch Scrooge this afternoon.

Date: 2009-12-20 01:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophiamoon.livejournal.com
Found my way here via via.

Read the LA Weekly article too, and the comments of that person as well. My my, I know we gay and lesbian folks can be somewhat touchy about how we are represented in any kind of media, but David sort of misses the point in full.
Not one single writer represents The Gay Male (or The Lesbian) experience. Because it doesn't excist, people. It simply isn't there. Even the very very very best gay male writer only gets a tiny part of what it can mean to be male and gay. And I'm sure they are very aware of that.

If writing m/m as a straight woman is a sin, what if a lesbian does it(who's been with her wife since '81, to make things worse)? An unimaginable horror? Or almost forgivable because I too live in the big bad straight world? ;-)

Almost forgot: love the rabbit!
Edited Date: 2009-12-20 01:47 pm (UTC)

Date: 2009-12-20 02:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vashtan.livejournal.com
The guy can suck my dick. :)

I checked out his blog, and he doesn't contribute anything, just rants and makes unfunny snide remarks to all the stuff he quotes. If quoting and embedding were illegal today, his blog would explode.

His self-serving bullshit is all about "ME!ME!ME!" so here's an attention whore +12. I fully intend to sell more books than he's ever seen in one place. Bye, bye, dinosaur.

Date: 2009-12-20 03:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] spindriftdancer.livejournal.com
And that, in a nutshell, is what it's all about. Don't take the self-wanking seriously, and maybe he'll go away.

We can only hope.

Date: 2009-12-20 05:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lee-rowan.livejournal.com
Wear a condom, Vash. Safety first.

Date: 2009-12-20 05:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vashtan.livejournal.com
You think he'd swallow?

Date: 2009-12-20 05:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lee-rowan.livejournal.com
Don't know, don't care. But you don't know who he's been with before.

Date: 2009-12-20 10:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] taylorbooks.livejournal.com
No one. All part of his complex.

Date: 2009-12-20 02:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] norton-gale.livejournal.com
How can anyone take this guy seriously?

*still haven't stopped laughing at "Raised By Hand Puppets."*

Date: 2009-12-21 10:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] erastes.livejournal.com
He's certainly one of the funniest I've seen - I didn't think anyone could write so camply. And that's not even a word.

Date: 2009-12-20 04:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lee-rowan.livejournal.com
Thank you, Lopears.

TW has garnered a review on Amazon that's quite good but the reviewer apparently took points off because (in Brendan's youthful and besotted POV) Philip is well-endowed. My beta reality-check, a gay friend on whom I depend for catching anything too unrealistic, suggested that perhaps it was that the reviewer did not feel he himself measured up in comparison.

I suspect the same is true of Little David.

Date: 2009-12-20 07:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] erastes.livejournal.com
Heh. Trouble is, though, men haven't spent years reading romance, have they? Mills and Boons heroes have to be well endowed!

Date: 2009-12-21 01:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lee-rowan.livejournal.com
I don't get why some readers are surprised that the characters in this genre are... well... romanticized. I mean - what does it say on the cover?

Date: 2009-12-20 06:03 pm (UTC)
ext_7009: (Default)
From: [identity profile] alex-beecroft.livejournal.com
LOL! At least Lopears is polite. What does NIMBY stand for btw?

Date: 2009-12-20 08:36 pm (UTC)
ext_7009: (Bando - wisteria)
From: [identity profile] alex-beecroft.livejournal.com
Aha! Thank you :)

Date: 2009-12-20 06:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] emeraldsedai.livejournal.com
Well, lots of people have already responded with what I would have said to this, but I won't let that stop me. If this guy had even mentioned the problem of fetishization (thereby indicating that he's even a little bit in touch with what's being seriously said and written in this area), I might have paid him a little more attention. I struggle with that issue myself, and sometimes wonder if, in writing and enjoying m/m romance, I'm guilty of enjoying those "Native American" Western romances of the 80s (or any other genre that made a fetish of something "other").

But if all he's going to do is whine and rant and tell me how I may and must not express myself, then screw him and the horse he rode in on. I'm not writing about him. I don't need his permission.

Date: 2009-12-20 07:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] erastes.livejournal.com
hear hear - and I find that I can't allow myself to think I'm fetishing gay sex--or at least no more than any romance fetishises any kind of sex. after all--going back to animal stories--Duncton Wood (about moles) had some seriously graphic mole sex in them. And if that's not fetishising.... I think that perhaps we worry unnecessarily, I'm sure no-one threw stones and arrows at men writing lesbian sex under female names.

Date: 2009-12-21 01:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lee-rowan.livejournal.com
Oh, I'm quite sure militant lesbians threw everything but the kitchen sink. And offhand, I suspect they had considerably more cause, because I've never seen any f/f-for-men that had any trace of character development, motivation, or anything else. And there really is some lousy, porny stuff out there, in both genres. But the narcissism kind of gets me. Why is anyone writing about any gay automatically writing about Special Snowflake? Granted, one of my characters shares a first name with him -- but so do a few hundred thousand other men. That makes as much sense as the Monkees' lead singer getting angry at Disney for putting his name on an octopus-headed character in Pirates of the Caribbean.

Date: 2009-12-21 02:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] joannesopercook.livejournal.com
As a result a lot of serious writing by gay men is being swept to one side while this psycho-sexual hen party has its way with my life and the lives of those I've loved. I have nothing but contempt for this.

Oh dear. That is unfortunate. I think someone needs this:

Image

Date: 2009-12-22 11:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gehayi.livejournal.com
That is BRILLIANT. I love it.

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