do i agree in ratings for YA books?

[erastes]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303657404576357622592697038.html?KEYWORDS=ya+books

http://cba-ramblings.blogspot.com/2011/06/on-darkness-in-ya-literature.html

No,not really. all this endless kerfuffle about #YA - why don't they just use the coloured dragon rating system they used to use when I was young? or - here's a radical thought - let the parents take some bloody responsibility as to what books they buy for their kids.

My mother researched every book that she bought for me and she was not fussy about 99,99% of it. She let me read books that were far too old for me as long as I could discuss it with her afterwards and we'd go through any issues I had. Her major bugbear was whether a book was well-written or not—so I romped through Perelandra, Out of the Silent Planet, The Triffids, War of the Worlds, as well as all the normal kid's books. But she wouldn't buy me any Enid Blyton or Dr Seuss because she considered them dumbing down and not particularly well written. (This of course meant that I developed a craving for Enid Blyton that I still carry to this day and still love reading Malory Towers and the like.) My parents had books in their library which had sexual scenes in them. If I was old enough to read them, and old enough to ask questions about them

Look at Tracy Beaker. It deals with all kinds of issues that we'd probably LIKE to shield children from. Violence, adoption, care homes, bullying and everything in between, but these books are hugely best selling here.

and no, before you jump down my throat, I'm not suggesting that little Alice aged eight can go into the bookshop or the library and get out "Motherfuckers on Hogs" – but (I have no idea how libraries are arranged these days but when I was a kid you had a kid's ticket and could only take books out of the kid's section) – the bookshop/library should be able to look at little Alice and see that she's not old enough to read that book.  If shops selling cigarettes and alcohol can see she's too young, then booksellers certainly can do it. The most books should (perhaps) have on them is "adult" imo, to aid the bookseller. Differentiating between whether a child is old enough to read a 13-15 book or a 15-18 book is not up to the bookseller. It's up to the parent, and the capability of the child.

If Alice really wants that book—or drugs—or a gun—she'll get it whether there's a label on the book or NOT. Seems to me that labelling the books simply devolves anyone from having any responsibility, when we all should have.

(I mean—has anyone READ the real version of Pinocchio? Or Cinderella? And Disney made kiddies films of those!!!???? what if the kids went and read the originals?! It's like making Disney Fight Club…)

Comments

[tina kolesnik (from livejournal.com)]

My parents didn't never monitored my reading-- and I got my hands on copious amounts of pulp and porn. I turned out fine. 0_0 Reading a book and finding that mind-blowing scene of sex is a rite of passage people.

What disturbs me is, it's not a responsibility issue as much as it's a control issue. It's not about young adults being exposed to sex--it's about young adults being exposed to specific kinds of sex that there parents may or may not agree with, and that's sad.

I'm sorry, but if you're the parent that needs to decide the 'type of sex' your pre-teen or teenager should 'stumble upon' in a story--then you're what's wrong with this country.

[mysid.livejournal.com]

If Alice really wants that book...she'll get it whether there's a label on the book or NOT.

I well remember a certain YA book making the rounds of my elementary school. I think every girl in my class borrowed it and read it. We kept it wrapped in a "protective" paper cover for fear that the teachers would recognize it as something we shouldn't be reading and confiscate it.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I don't think we even HAD YA. In fact I know we didn't -you just got your books from the kid's library or the kid's portion of the bookshop. But we did have books rather salacious such as "Hells Angels" going around my school too - rather well thumbed. :D

[mysid.livejournal.com]

I don't remember whether or not YA existed as a category at the time, but the book would certainly be considered a YA title today. (Teenage girl losing her virginity.)

And just a couple years later, I was reading "bodice rippers" romance novels right in front of my parents. I remember my mom asking if that material was a bit too "adult" for me, and my giving her my best thirteen-year-old stare down. "No," I replied, and I went back to reading.

[essayel.livejournal.com]

Disney Fight Club

I can so see that! They'd probably remake it with dogs or something. Tyler Durden would probably be a pit bull with a bandana instead of a collar [SO 1990s!] and the narrator a lop eared mutt.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

We should suggest it. I'm sure there are some depths they haven't yet plumbed.

[beckyblack]

I did once do an A-Team fanfic where the team were dogs. Maybe I should try to sell the concept as a cartoon series. ;-)

[erastes.livejournal.com]

i would definitely pay to go and see that.

[gehayi.livejournal.com]

(I mean—has anyone READ the real version of Pinocchio? Or Cinderella?

Yes, I did, and I felt horribly sorry for the stepsisters afterwards. Cutting off a toe or heel was just plain dumb and their own fault, but I remember getting very angry at Cinderella's birds for pecking their eyes out.

I liked the original Pinocchio all right, but I didn't like the art. I much preferred the Disney cartoon. (And even that had its creepy moments. Take a look:)



My parents were on board with yours--if I was old enough to ask intelligent questions, I was old enough to read them. That didn't mean that they let me read things that I wouldn't have understood at, say, aged six, but they did let me read pretty much what I wanted, even if it WAS junk. (Their verdict on the V.C. Andrews Flowers in the Attic series, for example. Pure junk. Now that I look back, they were absolutely right.)

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Yes, I read those books too, they were awful. AWFUL! but i remember enjoying them when i was a lot younger

[anderyn.livejournal.com]

Since I was reading historical books on the brothels of New Orleans when I was, what, six or seven? (with pictures AND graphic descriptions of some of the whore's experiences -- not sanitized at all -- it was my grandfather's book) and my mother's true confessional magazines whenever I could find a pile of them, I have had no problem with allowing my children and now grandchildren to read whatever they CAN physically read. Since I read quite quickly, I can read it before/after they do, and discuss anything I find problematical or they are curious about. I'm of the opinion that kids will skim over what they are not interested in, and that topics that are too "old" for them will not register until they are interested in them. I've re-read that historical book and a few others I read at the same age, and, yeah, they're pretty explicit, but I didn't internalize any of the graphicness. Not the way I did things that I read when I was nineteen or so, anyway.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

they definitely sound interesting - I wouldn't mind reading about NO brothels!

[oceankitty1.livejournal.com]

He he. I can see this has gotten a lot of comments and I understand why. Working in a bookstore I can see where labeling books might be of help to Uncle Jimmy when he buys a book for his twelve year old niece, but I agree with you; let the young ones decide themselves what they want to read. There are no stopping the other forms of media out there from bombarding the children with information so why should books have to be screened? Labeling them as Crossover or Young Adult should be enough. Though in fact even that irritates me sometimes, as it keep the grownups from reading them.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

It's nice to get comments! I was beginning to think everyone had disappeared!

No disrepect to you, I'm sure you are a good bookseller, but I'd think that a salesperson (in any shop really) should be able to advise Uncle Jimmy on his choice, rather than letting the book labelling be resopnsible on its own?

I agree that labels would put people off--I tend to avoice anything Young Adult, mainly because there just seems to be vampires and not much else in that section!

[oceankitty1.livejournal.com]

LOL! you're certainly right about the vampires. Most of the books seems to fall under the after-Harry-Potter-and -Twilight category. Luckily Uncle Jimmy does get help in my store, as none of the books are labeled in any way aside from which shelf they're sitting on. We have individual shelving for ages 1-2, 3-5,6-9, 10-12 and Young Readers. Sometimes I sneak the Young Readers books onto the tables designated Adults, just so that the adults can be teased into reading something really fabulous!( and no, I don't put anything remotely 'vampire' there) One thing is for sure; my teenagers do not appreciate having to go into the children's section to find their books, so I have separated The Young readers section as best as I can. Currently it's hugging the English Books section, as the young ones seem to read as much English as Norwegian :)

[enolabloodygay.livejournal.com]

I don't remember my parents ever stopping me reading anything. Didn't matter if it was 'well-written' or not, if I was reading, that was A Good Thing. I went to the children's section of the library, because that was the only place you were allowed to go with a child's ticket, but the librarian didn't stop me, at 6, reading a book deemed more suitable for a 10 year-old. If I didn't like it, I could always take it back unread, although I don't remember ever doing so.

I think the only restrictions they put on relatives/family friends buying me books was that they should be aimed above my chronological age as my reading age was much higher. 'Challenge the girl' was probably my Dad's motto.

As for YA stuff - 'Chopper' was THE book to read, it fell open naturally at page 37, as I remember, once a few people had read it and NOTHING a parent could have done would have stopped us reading it. We just made sure they never saw us doing so! I'm fairly sure that hasn't changed in 30-odd years!

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Exactly - putting ratings on books will change nothing. Stoopid.

[lee-rowan.livejournal.com]

Oh, you missed some wonderful nonsense rhymes with Dr. Seuss. And more than that - he had absolutely perfect scansion. It hurts my ears to listen to these clods in commercials trying to sound Seussian and stumbling over their 'feet.' The first book I was allowed to pick out for myself (and READ for myself) was Cat in the Hat. But.. a year later I was dragging my mother's old English Lit textbook out of the shelf, and getting bits of Saki and other classic short stories. And for some reason, she had a book of opera storylines, I don't remember why because neither she nor my dad ever listened to opera music. I remember reading the plot for Aida when I was 7 or 8 and wondering why in the world she and her lover didn't just disguise themselves as beggars and sneak out of town.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Oh, I read them anyway - they had them in my school library, but never really "got them" i suppose I was too old for them by then. I much preferred--and still do to this day, the poetry of Edward Lear and the Cautionary Verses of Hilare Belloc! (see "Matilda: who told lies and was burned to death") http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/matilda-who-told-lies-and-was-burned-to-death/

[lee-rowan.livejournal.com]

I probably spent more time reading them to my baby sister. Lear.. ran into a few of his, but to me he was like Lewis Carroll -- too full of his own cleverness.

I think my favorite books as a kid were the Black Stallion series and others by that author.

Our library had a children's section, but I didn't stay in it, and don't recall ever being stopped at the checkout.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

We had - and I think that's still the case now - kid's tickets, so you could only draw books from the non-adult library, they were a differetn colour back then, as far as I remember, you graduated to a full ticket and it was a real occaison. Now it's all computerised and you don't even have to deal with a human in our libraries these days it must be even easier to block non adult check outs but i don't know if they do that these days. of course a kid could always nick mother's card and no-one would notice!