Sound & Fury by B A Tortuga Review - and confused over Time Well Bent Guidelines

[erastes]

Sound and Fury by B A Tortuga

Short Version: Plot? What Plot? C+

Long Version Again, I encountered a problem I see again and again with these gay historicals, that don't tell you WHEN they are occurring. When you pick up a book at the library or in a bookshop you flip over to the back and read something like: Fresh from Waterloo -Captain Carter is ordered by Lord Wellesley to quell an uprising in the SoandSo province. Will Carter be able to infiltrate the warlord's defences? Blah blah…

So we know where – and when – we are!

But this (and many others I read recently) has no clues as to setting it firmly WHEN. And call me picky, but I like to know! The early and mid 19 th Century was a hugely transformative century, the modern civilisation was being born and even 20 years here and there made a large difference to the fashions, the language, the transport etc.

So I had to ASSUME it was pre-Victorian, even Regency perhaps but I had no idea, and as I said, it's about the sixth book I've read recently (more if you count the four short stories of J Talbots) that has this problem and I'm getting more and more sensitive to it. /rant

However, the books starts in a promising fashion, our hero Seth is acting as second to a friend's duel. The antagonist Declan Murtagh (who is surprised that Seth knows he's Irish!!…no jokes please) is a kind of D'Artagnan figure when we first meet him, and he admits that he's been in eight duels in a fortnight. Seth becomes attracted to the young man, invites him back to the house for breakfast and Declan stays for good, and they are shagging before you can say "what era is this?"

If you like long long LONG sex scenes you'll love this – the first sex scene goes on for 22 pages!!! – about 5000 words. I have trouble writing entire short stories of that length… The book is 35k words long approx and about 18k of those are sex. They are fairly hot, but really, who wants to wank for 5k??? Ouchie.

However – unless my version had something missing – I couldn't find any actual plot at all. There's a "conflict" shoe-horned in half way through which causes Declan to bolt but the resolution is weak and the reunion is unrealistic. After its promising start the book deteriorated into a series of rather strange arguments which seemed to have no point, a lot of scenes of the characters eating rather anachronistic things and the marathon love-making scenes as mentioned.

The writing isn't bad, at all, it's engaging and I warmed to both characters early on - surprisingly they are three dimensional but I'd like have have seen them given something to do other than.. well, you know. The trouble is that it got boring and I just thought OMG NOT AGAIN - flipped forward for pages - which meant I only read about half of this book at most because when I saw them (after a break of about five paragraphs) getting into another clinch I just kept turning pages until they'd both spent. Again.  It actually feels very much like a converted RPG, now I come to think about it.

If you want huge tender sex scenes, you'll love it, but if you want some story with your sex you'll be disappointed, it's probably one of the longest PWP's I've ever read.

And in other WTFs -  Confused now - The anthology "Time Well Bent" Guidelines seem to have altered, and my head has gone Splodey.

This was the original guideline.

"Time Well Bent will be an anthology of speculative fiction in the sub-genre of alternate history, written from GLBTQ perspectives. Imagine some historical event, of great or slight significance, veering off from what is currently recorded, thereby changing history in large or small ways. The alternate sexuality of the protagonists must play an integral part in the course of events."

"Elements of time travel with the intention of altering history will be a hard sell, but might work. Fantasy could fit when the historical period or cultural setting is appropriate, such as in the Medieval or Renaissance eras, or, as a culture-based example, in a story of Roma (Gypsies) resisting Nazi oppression."

"This book is not intended to be erotica. Plot, setting, and characterization are the essential elements. Any level of erotic content integral to the development of the story is fine, but nothing gratuitous."

Ok, fine - but I've just noticed that this has been added:

"NOTE: after reading some submissions, I need to make it clear that I'm not looking for historical 'slash,' as such, or stories that are primarily romance. It's a matter of tone and focus. Relationships (and sex) can be part of the story, but the historical and speculative aspects must be central."

OK - so the protag has to be GLBTQ... and he must be integral to the changing history e.g. Smuggling King Charles I off the scaffold at the last moment - but his being gay doesn't enter into it.

Sorry. I'm confused. I get that one's actions are mostly NOT driven by one's libido, but if the character is G-etc, then why bother mentioning it? Why should his sexual orientation be relevant at all, if what they want is a historical AU in some way?  A character's sexuality isn't always mentioned, after all - he just gets on with his job, adventuring etc.

"David watched the scaffold being built as he remember the rough sex he'd had with the rough trade behind the tavern the night before. Daniel? Simon? He couldn't remember and it didn't matter now. He was here to do a job. To free the King."

Confused. Anyone got any thoughts?

Comments

[logophilos.livejournal.com]

I'm guessing they want stories where the character's sexuality is not the driving force of the plot. So the hero/heroine is gay, but that's not what the story is about (which is the kind of story I write and enjoy.) Sounds perfectly fine to me.

[gehayi.livejournal.com]

But if the sexuality doesn't matter and isn't supposed to affect the plot, then why bring it up at all?

For example, posit the existence of a story about a homosexual outlaw in the Old West. Now, I would probably assume that if anyone was bringing up the fact that homosexuality was a key element of this character, it would, in fact, be important in the story. I'd think that blackmail might be involved, or issues of leadership among his gang, or legal problems, or conflict with someone who found homosexuality to be morally reprehensible. I would think that somehow, some way, the homosexuality would be a vital plot point.

I would not expect a story in which a pivotal character was gay and yet this fact was persistently ignored. Especially not in a self-proclaimed gay anthology in which the historical character's gayness is supposed to be key. it sounds to me as if the editor changed his concept of the anthology in midstream.

Maybe you could explain to me what the editor is looking for? Please? Because I don't get it.

[logophilos.livejournal.com]

I would think that somehow, some way, the homosexuality would be a vital plot point.

Why? Why can't it be that his relationships are with other men, and that he's gay the way it's assumed most heroes are straight? I adore stories where homosexuality is not the only interesting thing about a gay protagonist - just *one* of the things which go towards making up his character.

My view is expressed rather well by sparkindarkenss here:
http://community.livejournal.com/thisthingwedo/2935.html

Plots with gay characters do not have to revolve around their sexual preferences any more than those with straight characters do. Just having gay people in a story, front and centre and unapologetically, is unusual enough to warrant an anthology devoted to that kind of thing.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Oh I agree that it is perfectly great to have books/stories where the character just happens to be gay, there are lots of stories like that - but in this case, the call stated that the sexual orientation was INTEGRAL to the changing of the universe, making it veer off in another direction, which indicates to me (and others, from feedback i've had from other writers) that it's something he does with his sexual orientation that causes the change. I use he as a universal of course.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I understand that - it's like Lord John - but what I don't understand is how his sexuality can be integral to the changed history unless he uses his sexuality in some way.

[galadhir.livejournal.com]

Something like Gabaldon's 'Lord John Grey' - where he's gay, and that affects who he knows, his social contacts and the way he looks at the world etc, but the story is about him investigating a murder. So being gay affects how he deals with the investigation (and is therefore integral) but the story isn't about it... (?)

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I don't see how LJ's being gay is integral to the plot though - it affects how he behaves in his private life, granted, and the way he behaves to others but don't see how he solves his mysteries because of it. I suppose I just don't see how you can have a protags sexuality being "integral" to the changing of world history unless it's done in a sexual/romantic manner. But then I'm feeling particularly dim about the whole matter.

[galadhir.livejournal.com]

He gets into the molly house and gets answers from the propriator because of it. Though it's true he could have done that a different way had he been straight.

But I was also thinking - what about someone who saved William Rufus' life on the hunting trip because Rufus was more tolerant towards gay relationships than Henry was. He could fear for his life under Henry's reign and therefore determine to save the king and change history without, potentially, even being in a relationship at all. Edward the third would work too.

[rwday.livejournal.com]

Edward the third would work too.

It was Edward II who was gay. Well, bisexual. Really, there wasn't even a concept of sexual orientation then anyway. But yes, the saving Rufus' life thing would make a cool story. That's right in the middle of one of my favorite historical periods - you should write it!

[galadhir.livejournal.com]

LOL! Spot the reason I was no good at history at school - I'm terrible with numerals and dates :) I meant the Edward/Piers Gaveston thing. (But you knew that ;) )

I've written off to the anthologists to see if the Rufus idea is the sort of thing they're looking for, and I might well write it. I'm more of a Saxon fan myself, but the Normans are pretty cool too ;) Thanks for the impetus!

[irreparable.livejournal.com]

I subbed for that and was told that it contained too much romance. *shrug* And I'd tried to be light on the romance and focus on the protag being the driving force behind the change of history.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I had an idea for it - I think I'm going to have to write it anyway, but it DOES involve my protag acting on romantic/crush type reasons - but that's the only way I can see it being "integral" to the plot. I'll make it unrequited - and hope for the best!

[irreparable.livejournal.com]

Good luck - I was told that romance of any sort was a no-no. Though now I have to find somewhere else that it might fit, as she did say that it was excellent but too romantic for their anthology and someone else would no doubt want to pick it up.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Thanks hun. I'm just being very dim I think - I just don't understand how you can have his sexuality integral to the plot without having it... well, integral to the plot!!!

I mean - for example. Sam Marlowe is aggressively heterosexual, but it's not relevant to his books - granted he always gets some action of some sort however!!!

I suppose I should just ask the editor for clarification...

[irreparable.livejournal.com]

Oh, I agree. The premise sounded very interesting, and the idea for the short bit me almost immediately. I researched it to the nth degree to make sure I got the dates and details right. But yeah, I couldn't see how not mentioning the sexuality could make the sexuality...central! If you do get some clarification, I'd be interested to know what she says.

sexuality vs SEXuality

[queertext.livejournal.com]

it strikes me more as if these stories should be explicitly queer but not necessarily explicitly romantically/sexually queer; there's all sorts of ways your sexuality can be integral to your life (and therefore a character's sexuality to a story) without there being actual sex acts or even romantic feelings...

Re: sexuality vs SEXuality

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Well, as I said, I must be being dim, because I can't think of any - specially as in this case - his sexual orientation has to INTEGRAL as to the universe changing events, and I don't know how I can manage that. I mean, if I write about a man saving the world, the fact whether he's gay or straight has nothing to do with it.

I guess I;ll have to scrap my Romanoffs not dying idea and sit back and sit what other people come up with.

[elisa-rolle.livejournal.com]

I have read some books by BA Tortuga and you are right: she/he (in this case I don't know, but I think she) has always some interesting starting plot but sometimes there is too much sex... ok I like sex, but when you have also an interesting story, I also like to read more about it. Private Dance, Just Like in the Movies, Living in Fast Forward, all contemporary, all with a very romantic love story (especially Private Dance) that in the end I have not the feeling to enjoy in its complexity. ciao, elisa

[erastes.livejournal.com]

This was far far FAR too much sex - OVER half the book, and there was only about one scene - the scene at the ball after Declan leaves where Seph goes out to have any life. Very off putting - I like sex scenes too, but I'm not into 5k sessions - that's just ... mindboggling. I think that BAT would be better off writing shorter porn - but maybe they get paid a lot more for doing 35k novellas. Personally I think it's a waste of an authors time.

I just read an historical like that ...

[djebrin.livejournal.com]

as recommended by a regular, in fact, "The Stallion and the Rabbit" (I have a thing for camels, so shoot me). The name was indeed indicative. Apart from passing mention of sand every now and then, one could hardly tell where let alone when it was (and the camel count was depressingly low).

But no. 1 screaming peeve: "historical" (and I use the term loosely) fiction that uses "Okay". Repeatedly. It seemed to crop up in every exchange in this story. Now that's just about possible - it was supposed to be set in the late nineteenth century and the OED dates OK from 1839 - but in America, not Britain. I wouldn't expect it to be in common use in Britain until after WWII. Why would anyone use it in dialogue in a nineteenth-century setting with an English protagonist? Aaargh!

Obviously far, far too picky ... but it's the kind of thing that pricks the bubble of the illusion.

Historical fiction is hard work, I think - but if you don't want to do the research, write something contemporary or fantastical!

Re: I just read an historical like that ...

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Now - that's good to know - I was actually going to make that the next one I bought. Perhaps I won't....

I lost my tea on the "camel count" sentence. Now you've got me wanting to write something sandy, damn you!!!!

And yes, I don't profess AT ALL to be an expert (and I hate to sound preachy, but it's becoming a bit of a crusade with me the more I read and the more I research) and there were accidental/unresearched mistakes in Standish but I tried as hard as I could. I don't see any point in doing a historical and then having facts in that are stupidly wrong. My main point is that you show your reader no respect in this, and the gay historical won't be taken seriously - gay romance is already eschewed by a lot of historians for this reason.

As I've often said - mystery writers are expected to get it right, so so should historical writers.

/preach!!!! *G*

Re: I just read an historical like that ...

[djebrin.livejournal.com]

Ugh, I so agree! Thing is, the language is the *easy* part. If you've read novels contemporary to your setting, you should have a fairly good idea of the vocabulary, and any doubt can be resolved by a quick rootle in OED. It's much easier to get that right than tricky factoids like "did gentlemen wear swords with dress uniforms?" (I have a dim recollection of somewhere ladies moaning about having their ballgowns ripped by same, which makes me think so).

I suppose there are two classes of het historicals, though - the bodice ripper vs. the researched "serious" novel - so perhaps there's room for all comers with gay historicals too. I could have forgiven the anachronistic language in this one if it had created a credible sense of place and time, but for me it did neither.

Clearly a challenge: one sandy story, stat! With a star turn by an heroic camel, for choice ...

Re: I just read an historical like that ...

[erastes.livejournal.com]

And yes, I agree that there's room for breeches rippers and serious stuff, I hope I fall somewhere in the middle, but even when I'm reading a bodice ripper I want my character to evoke a sense of the period.

The trouble with sand is that it gets in all the little crevices....

I had a real crush on The Desert Song when I was a nipper. Sigh.

[semioticwarrior.livejournal.com]

It's a very confused submission call. I wonder if *they* know what they want.

"primarily romance" but "relationships *can* be part of the story" -- just not the primary part.

Hmmmm

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Exactly! Head exploding!!

TWB-from the editor

[sacchig.livejournal.com]

I do know what I want, but it's quite true that "tone" and "focus" are in the eye of the beholder, and, like the old definition of pornography, "I know it when I see it". Yes, the GLBT identity should be crucial to the plot, and yes, the action (of various flavors) is bound to reflect that. There's only so much room in a short story, though, and historical detail and the "idea" being developed need to take up so much of it that there isn't a lot of space left for delivering the emotional "fix" that readers look for in the romance genre. If you can get in it there, great, but not at the expense of the rest.

Not that I don't enjoy romance as much as the next, um, guy, and smut even more, as anyone who's read my stories or my previous anrthologies might notice. The publisher isn't marketing this book as erotica or romance, though, but as science fiction, or at least a subgenre thereof.

I will expand further on this in my LJ later today, if I can tear myself away from basking on rocks in mountain streams and hiking along trails pocked with moose prints and edged with ladyslippers. I've got a couple of rare days of vacation going on here.

Re: TWB-from the editor

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Ah!!! You know - I didn't realise you were the editor of this!! It's such a small world! Thank you for replying, and I'll check your LJ later!

Re: TWB-from the editor

[sacchig.livejournal.com]

Ah! Well, that explains why you didn't toss your questions at me in comments there. I thought maybe you'd picked up the guidelines from my LJ.

I may not get to my elucidation until tomorrow; I'm supposed to be critting a story for a friend who's applying for a writing grant, and it's turning out to more complex than I'd expected.

Re: TWB-from the editor

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Bear of little brain here, remember? *G* *smites self*

OO good luck with the critting and fingers crossed for your friend.

[electricandroid.livejournal.com]

"David watched the scaffold being built as he remember the rough sex he'd had with the rough trade behind the tavern the night before. Daniel? Simon? He couldn't remember and it didn't matter now. He was here to do a job. To free the King."

You will write this.

You must.

Possibly with phallic nature of hanging corpses etc.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

VILE ENABLER!

[electricandroid.livejournal.com]

I like being one of those - it is terrible - i'm getting a muse back, but going away for a holiday in 2 weeks and so don't want to start anything to get distracted.

Come on - wouldn't it be fun to write a story where you only know the protagonist is gay through his perceptions, without once mentioning that he shags men?

[shenya.livejournal.com]

*An almost morbid curiousity*

Have you read Torquere's Eternal Darkness? I have a historical short-story in there. I did try to make it clear it was historical but now that I think about it there are only subtle clues to the specific time... I definitely didn't want an out-of-place time statement that felt like it was there for just the reader. Although I think I do get what sort of thing you're suggesting here.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

No - I haven't read that one - the trouble is that the ebook sites don't have a gay historical search function so it's taking me a LOT of scrolling to find anything at the mo!!

I'll have to see if I can find it.

[valarltd.livejournal.com]

Dare I ask if you've got a TotS subscription? If you do, how badly are you hating Kestrel on the Horizon?

I'm generally loving my subscription, but I gave up on "Freighter Flights" because of lack of plot. I don't need a sex scene every chapter.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

What does TotS stand for? I've just read a sample of Kestrel and it seems similar to the stuff I've been reading recently - although with more "Well, Bob" dialogue!

Ah - a little investigation proves it's "Turn of the Screw" - and no - I won't be signing up for a subscription. I sampled some ebooks because I wanted to read as much gay historical as I can, but I really can't get used to them. I like to read AWAY from the PC, sprawled on the couch, lazing in the garden or the bath or bed - I'll never get used to online books!

But thanks - it's good to know that some other people are writing gay historical fiction - only WHY are they not pushing to get into print? Is it because it's easier to get published electronically?

And no - I don't need a SS in every chapter either. Standish is a little more saturated with sex than it would be if I wrote it again now, but the guidelines I was reading when I wrote it said that they wanted one in each chapter, but it does put me off now. I think I just want my gay historicals to be more mainstream perhaps.

[valarltd.livejournal.com]

I write almost every genre, actually.

As for why e-books? because TQ gave me my break, and I'm the loyal type. Besides, print is neat but a fiscal pain. the bookstores order 1000 copies. You get royalties on 1000 copies. THEN, the book stores send five hundred copies back as remainders, and you have to pay the company half of your royalties back.

Also? 37% royalties instead of 5%.

And at base: Kestrel is my first published novel. I'm a little insecure about it, and so I put it out to Turn of the Screw, so I could piggyback on better known writers to build a readership.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

That's interesting - TQ gave me my break too, my first three short stories were published by them, but then they seemed to stop doing their themed anthologies for shorts.

As much as I like to be loyal, I can't manage with the low pay rates they are still issuing. $100 is still peanuts for a story, but it's about the minimum I think i can sell a story for.

As for novels - I can't speak yet for any royalties, and as I haven't had my first proper royalty cheque from Standish yet, and I don't have an ebook to compare the output.

That's why I like PD Publishing you see, print on demand means sale or return, and it never goes out of print, it's sneered at, in the "mainstream" world, but I think it's a nice compromise for small publishers.

I mis read you, I didn't realise that Kestrel was yours, when you said "how much are you hating...." I thought you were being serious!! I'd love to read it, but find the subscription to TotS rather expensive for a month - as I'm very unlikely to want to read more than that particular story!!! But it's gay historical!!!!

Will it be available anywhere else at any point?

[valarltd.livejournal.com]

They're still doing anthologies. Shifting Back has a Jul 1 deadline. 10K words of historical GLBT shape-shifters. I have a naga falling for djinn in British India.

And Men in Uniform II is coming this summer.

I was serious. I've heard nothing, good bad or indifferent on Kestrel. It'll be out in complete e-book format in March (By then, we hope to have the sequel done)

[erastes.livejournal.com]

it's the size of the stories needed for the anthology that stopped me subscribing - I just find it very difficult to write a story of 10K - either they are 2-3k or 100,000!!

I've been toying with a colonial british idea since seeing a wonderfully slashy painting.

Let me know when your story comes onto non-subscription, I'll be very happy to read it!

print and e

[girluknow.livejournal.com]

But thanks - it's good to know that some other people are writing gay historical fiction - only WHY are they not pushing to get into print? Is it because it's easier to get published electronically?

Sometimes, electronic is all you have. I submitted a gay historical two years ago to every "traditional" publisher I could find and it was roundly rejected--maybe because it was 140,000 words or maybe because it sucked, I don't know.

Torquere was the only one who would take it. So they gave me my break, too--but I haven't sent them the second historical I finished in January. I'm still being roundly rejected once again by all the regular publishers like Alyson, Kensington, etc (and this time for a 116,000 words, which is squelching any small comfort I got out of the notion that earlier rejections were due to word count). I am now resorting to POD subs and when they've all rejected it, I'll turn to electronic again.

The reason e-booking is last resort in my mind is because I don't care about the royalties as much as I do about having a real honest-to-god book that I wrote in my hands (and maybe on a bookstore shelf somewhere--that would be good :)). Having an e-book is cool but a print book feels more like an accomplishment to me (probably because when I first began writing, there were no e-books :)).

I *do* push to get into print. I guess I'm just not good enough to get there. Yet.
I don't know how true this is for other authors. Some really love ebooks and ebooking. I'm like you. I like it in print.