A response from EPIC

[erastes]

EPIC haven't responded to my concerns, no surprise there, but they did reply to a fellow m/m writer Pat Brown. She graciously gave me permission to publish their answer on this blog, so here goes.  If you have high blood pressure you might want to take a pill now. The whole letter seems to me to be a metaphor for a woman with a shovel digging a deeper and deeper hole. Aside from one removed section, email is reproduced as is, typos and all.


"We fully embrace the difference in romantic liaisons. We have a category, GLBT, for same sex romance and other books within those genres. We are looking into adding a GLBT Romance category next year because we realize that we need a split between general GLBT books and their romantic counterparts.

"We have a large membership that DOES write exclusively in the GBLT category. They have not complained about the definition because they know we don't exclude them at all. It wasn't until after the contest started that we all realized we could have included a GLBT category which encompassed romance.

"Every contest has rules. Not everyone will agree with those rules. HOWEVER, we do our very best to include everyone. Not everyone is so open minded in regards to same sex romance. Every category MUST have a definition that defines that category. Contemporary Romance IS a category of heterosexual couples where as Contemporary GBLT Romance would not be. We don't have those new categories yet and we are not adverse to adding them should it be necessary.

"The GLBT category is judged only by people who LOVE the genre. Isn't that the way it should be?

"On a personal note, some of my best author friends are gay. Some of my female author friends write gay books. I personally have embraced that people are different all my life no matter what their sexual orientation might be. [section removed as it refers directly to personal feelings and politics]

"On a professional level, EPIC tries to be extremely fair to ALL it's members. We have gone from a contest with no GBLT category to one who
embraces the genre with open arms. We started with approximately 20 categories to a contest with 30 categories. We change as the market
changes and we try to say on top of the market.

"We take every complaint seriously and yours will be filed away to be looked at next year when we are once again doing the category definitions for the EPPIEs.

"I am hoping that this will put to rest your fears regarding this subject.

"Thank you.

"Carol MacLeod
"EPIC President"

ETA: My two cents:

1. We fully embrace the difference in romantic liaisons 

What differences?  Why is gay love different from heterosexual love.

2.We have a category, GLBT, for same sex romance and other books within those genres.  

How kind at least there's somewhere for those "other books" to go other than in the normal categories. It also means that Age of Sail, Vikings, Thrillers, Detective, Scifi, Fantasy, contemp romance all have to compete against each other.

3. We are looking into adding a GLBT Romance category next year because we realize that we need a split between general GLBT books and their romantic counterparts.

Again. WHY do you need a split between gay books and their "romantic counterparts"?

4. They have not complained

Because as far as I can tell, most of them hadn't seen the category definitions before they entered?  Also people don't like to complain. And they have complained. I've complained. Pat Brown has complained and Lee Rowan has complained.

5. Contemporary Romance IS a category of heterosexual couples

WHY?  Could you explain to me why contemporary=heterosexual?

6. On a personal note, some of my best author friends are gay.

Oh Dear. Foot - meet bullets.

7. I personally have embraced that people are different all my life no matter what their sexual orientation might be

I think that's the crux of the matter, madam Chairperson. - you consider gay people to be DIFFERENT and while you think you are being accepting, for forgiving them for being different, you are actually being - perhaps unintentionally - homophobic.

8. We change as the market changes and we try to say on top of the market.

As ebooks sprung mainly from the GLBT and erotic end of the market, I challenge that assertion.

Comments

[b-sheridan.livejournal.com]

Um...yeah.

[rwday.livejournal.com]

On a personal note, some of my best author friends are gay

FAIL.

[rikibeth.livejournal.com]

OH NO SHE DI'INT1

Except, of course, that she did.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I had a shovel all handy, and yanno? She didn't need it - she had her own!

I also loved the "the difference in romantic liaisons" part.

Yes because gay love is DIFFERENT to NORMAL love.

[moondancerdrake.livejournal.com]

That's lik a racist saying "But my black friend thought it was funny."

[lamardeuse.livejournal.com]

OMG SHE ACTUALLY USED THE "SOME OF MY BEST FRIENDS ARE..." LINE.

*headdesks*

[auburnimp.livejournal.com]

Oh perlease!

[joyful-molly.livejournal.com]

Not everyone is so open minded in regards to same sex romance.

We shall throw our unworthy selves into the dust now, eating crow and ask for her forgiveness, for we did not appreciate her extreme generosity and open-mindedness and embracing attitude as we should have.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Damn us! Damn us for being so liberal! It's all OUR FAULT!

[valarltd.livejournal.com]

It's one of those "Change is happening, but slowly" things.
The letters this year (and next and next) will be the force that causes the change

Let me be frank: GLBT work does NOT perform as well in open categories. Preference will always be given to the heterosexual stories (or in the case of one award I always end up nominated and finalist in, but never win, stories with no sex at all).

It sounds like they are amenable to adding more categories as time progresses, but unwilling to lump everything into "Romance."

My best friends....No. FAIL. You go straight to the nearest community center and get your butt educated. (I'm queer and I can't even say that)

[erastes.livejournal.com]

You win the prize button for giving me the belly laugh of the day with the "get your butt educated" line.

I need to Icon that. Now.

[lee-rowan.livejournal.com]

Epic's a members-only, all-volunteer organization, and officers are elected, so to a great extent it reflects the membership--that is, it reflects the membership self-selected for people who have an interest in running for office in the organization. The truth is, it's a small organization and in the grand scheme of publishing, not a mover or shaker, and I know more people who have said 'screw it' and just left than people who are active in the group's politics. Small-group politics is a pain in the rear, and avoiding it makes sense from a writer's perspective. Most of us are trying to find time to write and do all the promotional fandancing. Small-group politicking is not on my list of top 10 useful things to do... so yes, actually, to some degree it is our own 'fault'--not for being liberal, but for not wanting to take over the group and change the rules.

I have to say this, too - most people who say 'some of my best friends are X' DO NOT REALIZE that the phrase was originally, "some of my best friends are black (or was it Jewish?) but I wouldn't want my sister to marry one." They really don't. They do not understand why having a nice little table in the corner by the kitchen door, where our presence won't upset the rest of the patrons, isn't really treating us fairly (whatever minority 'us' may be.)

And it truly is difficult to be fair to all parties, until those parties make their presence known. When someone says, "Why aren't there more bisexual/minority/f-f/poly stories--what can you say but "I don't know, have you written any?"

This isn't a problem that's going to be solved anytime soon, and it is incremental. I think it would make more sense just to leave out the restrictive wording and if glbt books fail in the larger categories, so be it. It may be a handicap in terms of general popularity, but if an athlete with a prosthetic leg wants to enter the Boston Marathon, knowing there's little chance of a win, is it fair to say "two whole legs only?"

[melspenser.livejournal.com]

I find it interesting that "no one else has complained." There's an open note from Lee Rowan out there right now. Plus, a lot of people don't complain because they don't want to commit professional suicide in an open forum: i.e., not going along with the clique is not usually a healthy thing to do.

"Some of my best friends are gay..." What a lame response.

Ironically, she seems to be patting herself on the back for her progressive thinking.

I'm going to take a couple of Tylenol now.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

It's hard to complain sometimes, as you say - but necessary me thinks. Another part of the letter that got me was the fact that they only realised AFTER the contest started that they should have GLBT romance categories.

Last year they overlooked the infamous plagiarised book "after the contest started" too

[jessewave.livejournal.com]

Who are these people that head up organizations like EPIC, RWA etc? Are there nominations and voting for candidates of your choice to sit on the board and be president? Can the current board be ousted if they don't act in the best interests of ALL the members? I realize that there are a lot of the "old guard" still around in these organizations, but the only way to achieve real change is to do it from inside as one very knowledgeable person in the industry pointed out to me a few weeks ago when I was railing against the lack of progress in this field. So maybe that's where you start. I don't think much will change without a wholesale change in attitude as evidenced by the comments from the President of EPIC. Her comment that some of her best author friends are gay is like saying "some of my best friends are black".

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I don't know what their voting criteria is, to be honest. Perhaps it's members who vote?

And yes, a change in attitude is very clearly called for when the Chairperson of EPIC considers her gay friends to be nice but different.

[lee-rowan.livejournal.com]

4. They have not complained

Because as far as I can tell, most of them hadn't seen the category definitions before they entered? Also people don't like to complain.

* * *

Because most of the m/m writers in EPIC are following the "Keep quiet, be polite, be grateful for any acknowledgment that we exist."

And -- sorry? If there's been no complaining, I have to wonder what the hell they think my post was - because my LJ entry was what I sent on the open Epic business Yahoo group. And I can't believe I'm the only person who said anything, though I might be teh only rude bitch who's said anything in public.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Nod - perhaps you are the only member to take a stand - which is pretty shocking in itself.

[sithdreams.livejournal.com]

Dear god, did she actually bust out the "some of my best friends are gay" comment? Dear god...

Having had personal difficulties with the ridiculous EPPIE (or Schmeppies, as I call them) categories, I won't sub any of my GLBT work anymore.

*slinks back away*

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Yes - classic wasn't it?

[lee-rowan.livejournal.com]

IMO, they do not need to split GLBT Romance off from other GLBT. Worst possible way to do it. Most of the m/m stories are romance, of one sort or another, so creating a GLBT Romance and GLBT Other is not going to fix anything. They need to make mirror romance categories: Historical, Sci-Fi, Contemp, Paranormal, whatever.

The problem with this process, as I see it, is that they elect officials and ask for award committee volunteers - but then there is no input until after the categories are finalized for the year. The time to ask for input is when the categories are being defined.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

One of the arguments is: "but this way the people who read and judge m/m are the people who love it" - but that doesn't wash. If you put all the contemp romance together (and the others, and didn't segregate the glbt) then you still have the same number of readers and judges as you had before - they have'n't disappeared off anywhere! so the judges would still be reading the m/m as if they were doing it in a separate category. And they'd mark the book exactly the same as they would have done before.

Perhaps it's as you said - they'd worry that there would be a disproportional amount of glbt in the romance category. Can't have that! Some of it might win! And then what would they do!?

[angelabenedetti.livejournal.com]

On number three, my interpretation is that they've recognized the need to separate general GBLT books from romantic GBLT books. It could be better worded, but that's what it looks like to me. And so far as that goes, I agree. If it's silly to have pirate romances competing with lawyer romaces competing with SF romances, then it's even sillier to have a gay historical romance competing with a non-fiction gay lifestyle or history-of-the-gay-community book. Having a General GBLT category separate from a GBLT Romance category would be a step in the right direction IMO.

That said, yeah, the rest of it is full of fail, and I agree that she's probably not even aware of most of the slurs or points of offensiveness. :/

I have to agree with Lee, though, that the best way to get them to change would probably be from within. I haven't written to complain because I'm not an EPIC member, and it would seem a bit entitled for me as an outsider to be demanding that a group I'm not a member of change to please me.

And if that's not an option, then what is? Is there any other kinda-sorta-major award for e-books? Heck, is there any other industry organization for e-book writers? Or for GBLT writers? I haven't noticed that EPIC gives all that much in return for its membership dues anyway -- one of the reasons I've been slow to join -- so are there any viable alternatives? RWA would technically be a fit for those of us who write romances, but they're not exactly known for being gay-friendly either. [cough] So what's out there for us? Anything? :/

Angie

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Ah - I see what you mean by point three - I missed that completely, and it could be taken two ways.

I wonder if they are deliberately being a bit clever - being bigoted enough to pretend they don't mean it, which actually offends the gay community and stops them from joining - and thereby undermining anyone's authority. But perhaps I'm giving them too much credit.

I'm of the opinion that as many books are now automatically published in both formats that books should just be judged as books in all awards. But heck, that's another battle - one at a time!

I think the time has come to start this new organisation that we've been talking about where all writers are welcome and that gender/sexual persuasion isn't an issue for the author or for the books they write.

[tharain.livejournal.com]

May I just say, EPIC fail?

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I slay me.

We are looking into adding a GLBT Romance category next year because we realize that we need a split between general GLBT books and their romantic counterparts.

Oh, goody I just LOVE being "Separate But Equal." Next thing you know they'll say that they fully support domestic partnership as opposed to gay marriage, those radicals.

And I find it interesting that there has to be a split between "LGBT" and "Romance." 'Cause we homos are NEVER romantic, you know.

Um, people? Courtly love was pretty much invented by those big old homos around Eleanor of Acquitaine and her court. Without us, there wouldn't even be romance.

On a personal note, some of my best author friends are gay.

I'm sorry, I just barfed all over my keyboard. I'll go clean up now.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

*hugs you*

Ah - but they allow for poofs doing it for themselves in the PAST, that's ok!! It's just contemporary romance that can only be heterosexual!

[finneganthepoet.livejournal.com]

Again, I really liked this post and its subject matter. I am just so sorry that heterosexual people live in such a segrated world that they use terms of expression that make them sound like pigs, even when they are probably not meaning to sound this way.

But there is one thing that is unescapable in this. The System of Thought they come from is still very painfully hetero, and while that persists, so will antigay propaganda, and so will ignorance come, hissing hot on its heels. It isnt really that that any one sexuality is different, but it is that we are endlessly being bombarded with heterosexual propaganda. If you were a child, reading these definitions would indeed brainwash you into thinking heterosexual was the only alternative there was.

But isnt that the good thing about being adult and queer? You know better than that because you live this.

Rather than be upset by the raging ignorance here, which would also be so easy to pick apart, it would be my hope that the chairwoman be enlightened, not mocked, and for all of us to remember what a job this world does to before you can even come out and aceept yourself. It does this job to straight people even more, and you must be patient with them, not angry, if you were to teach them any different....

Most Respectfully

F i n n e g a n

F i n n e g a n

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I suppose you are right - I should be more patient, but it does make me angry - especially with the whole "some of my best friends... " line.

[moondancerdrake.livejournal.com]

And this is why I am not currently a supporter of Epic, though I had thought of joining recently, before this crap. I do not want to be givin’ my crumbs and be told I should be satisfied with thier generosity. No thank you, masta Epic, I’ll pass. There is no reason all LGBT fiction should be lumped in one category. I fact until recently I didn’t even know they were doing that. I had thought someone promoting a progressive market such as ebooks would b a bit less antiquated in their views. If I like paranormal, I am no going to get as much enjoyment reading a historical, whether or not the historical may be better written. I don’t see why LGBT romance has to be segregated like this. What, they afraid our sexy butches will lure the heroines away from the alpha males? You think gay is catching? And was I imagining the section insisting the m/m authors be male or using a male penname? One again, antiquated concepts to support what should be a progressive push forward in the ebook marketplace.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Isn't it just how it comes over "Oh you should be grateful we have a category"?

What I said above is that I don't see what difference it makes putting them all into the same categories. Ms A is still going to be judging Het book 1 and Ms B is still going to be judging Gay Book 1 which ever category they are in, so the other judges aren't going to be offended becuase there are gay books in the same category.

[m-barnette.livejournal.com]

I joined EPIC as a publisher this year. I won't be paying money to join again.

Keep an eye on my LJ. I should have some news in a few months about an alternative to EPIC.

A GLBT friendly one.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Sounds interesting. We've been looking over at this page today and no-one else has this segregation. Not even the RITAS now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_literary_awards

[venivincere]

I really ought to have listened to you re: the blood pressure medication. *fumes*

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Heh. I warned you!

[granamyr.livejournal.com]

This is why I'm not bothering with the EPPIEs this year. As for the Spectrum, my publisher nominated me for that, and I have zero chance of winning.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Good for you. I hope many people boycott them.

And I wish you luck! You should go for the Hugos. They don't discriminate.

[melspenser.livejournal.com]

They are still going at it on the EPIC chat. They are basically dog-piling the people who don't agree with them. And as conservatives usually do, they turn to ridiculing those who don't agree.

Here's a typical quote. "We've gone way too far in trying to accommodate those who wish to be different."

I'm going to stop reading it, or steam will come out of my ears.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Good LORD.

Yes because the gay people CHOSE to be different - and we should be GRATEFUL how kind they are being.

I've just had a letter from the President, which I shall be posting very soon, together with my answer.