Review of A Dance with Dragons VERY SPOILERY

[erastes]

I’m beginning this “review”(although it is more accurately a letter of complaint) before I’ve finished the book. At this point I’m 62 chapters in, and 81% done, and I’m sick to death of it. I’m struggling to finish, and I never not finish books. The only book I ever didn’t finish in disgust was the first Wraethlu book and this is nearly as bad as that. I don’t ever remember waiting this long for a book and being so disappointed. Even the Deathly Hallows didn’t disappoint me as much as this, and that—if you’ll remember my horror at that book—is saying something.

I have now finished and while the book took a minor turn for the better it soon plummeted back into “disappointing.”

The main problem to me is that it’s bloated beyond control. I can’t blame the editors for this, because I understand they had very little time to manage a monster of a book and it had already been cut down by about a third, apparently, but there’s so much padding it suffocates under its own weight, like Lord Manderley falling asleep on his wife, or something. Plus I would suspect that the editors worked on an arc, or a pov, and didn’t see the book as a whole—but even if that was the case, there’s no excuse for the repetition and rehashing Facts are repeated within the same POV – we are told a dozen (maybe two dozen) times how Tyrion killed his father and Shae, as if we’d forgotten, not only since reading the book where that happened, but since reading Tyrion’s previous chapter. We are reminded, over and over and over and in fact, over, who is leal to Winterfell and who has turned their cloak and who are enemies—so many times that I just wanted to scream. Even Asha, who in previous books knows nothing of the grass-soft lords and their history, suddenly seems an expert and we are reminded YET AGAIN what the position is regarding the Karstarks.

Every time we see Davos (and as much as I like Davos as a character I was glad we didn’t see him more than we did or I would have given up reading altogether) we are reminded over and over (and indeed, over) and over again that he had seven sons and he’s lost four and about his fingers.and every single thing else we’ve ever learned about this insignificant character. It’s not as if this fact is pigging relevant. Then, when we are invested with all this time with Davos, he’s dropped and we don’t see where he goes, who he’s with, blah de blah de blah. He’s a deus ex machina, simply there to show plot points as they move on.

So many chapters are not only rehashing, “as you know, Bob” narration and dialogue, but are entirely unnecessary. It seems that GRRM thought “well, x person has got to get to x place so I’d better show the journey.” And the actual journeys are pointless.

Seriously. Tyrion’s entire story of hundreds of pages could have started “Tyrion woke up and found he didn’t like being a slave.” Yes,there was one vital character he met on his travels, but his interaction with him was inconsequential and we did need the whole journey and the turtles. Ditto for Quentyn’s journey. Ditto for Victarian’s journey.

This is a classic example of his padding (in miniature)

"the sky above Meereen was the colour of corpse flesh, dull and white and heavy, a mass of unbroken cloud from horizon to horizon. The sun was hidden behind a wall of cloud. it would set unseen, as it had risen unseen that morning."

You see what I mean. We’ve had a literary description of the wall of cloud in teh sky, then for people who don’t quite get it, we get “it’s cloudy” Then for the complete thickos we are told what the consequence of this will be.

I am not judging the book on this one section, merely holding it up as a classic example of GRRM taking two or three ways to say the same thing. I have been tweeting over and over that “nothing has happened yet” and while that’s not entirely true, it certainly felt like it—probably due to the over-weighted and bloated chapters that are nothing more than description and travelogue and internal (repetitious) dialogue and angsting and telling us crap we already know and listing everyone in the scene and every merchant and every turtle and every type of food and every mercenary

I have learned that – if you can take out a scene, or a chapter entirely and it makes no difference at all to the plot—then that scene is entirely irrelevant and should—must—be excised. Now, of course, I don’t know GRRMS plan, it might be that there’s a very good reason he left all the boring tripe in, but it didn’t help to make this the kind of book that the first 3 were.

The problem with the chapters that are (probably) essential is everyone’s so bloody PASSIVE. There’s a reason Jon is, so that didn’t bother me, but what the hell happened to Dany and Tyrion? Did they both have lobotomies somewhere between books 4 and 5? Dany has gone down with a case of Tonks-itis. (Tonks, from Harry Potter was a smart, feisty auror –that alone meant she was in the top 3percent of her class—who rocked in the fighting department.She was clever, witty and amusing. Then in later books she fell in lurve, lost her powers, became nothing more than a weepy clinging woman and consequently died. Even when we see Ghost!Remus later on, she’s not with him.) And Dany has gone the same way. She won a Horse Lord’s heart, and his followers, and thousands of poorfolk’s hearts, then turns into nothing more than a girl in love led by men.

Love doesn’t do well in this series,as a matter of course. Of course I know that the good side doesn’t always win, but sheesh – sometimes they do. But there’s no character here who falls in love who gets a fair deal. In fact, GRRM goes so far to list a whole heap of people who married for love and allthe appalling things that happened to them. (that’s on top of the main characters who married for love and died horribly. Cat/Ned, Lysa, Dany/Drogo, Tyrion/Tysha and the others who loved without marriage and died horribly... Add to that the sudden homophobia from all corners,when it had been much more accepted before. No, love doesn’t do well.

LISTs: What was the point of all the lists? Naming every hostage that came through the wall? All the irritating hostages at irritating Meereen (is there a point to Meereen?) All with too many Zs in their names.

There were (a paltry few) chapters I liked. Perhaps ten out of 70 PLUS. But they don’t save this book which could have been cut in half and wouldn’t have lost a thing.

I WilL not be buying the Next one. I’ll GET it from the library.

Comments

[gehayi.livejournal.com]

WELL SAID.

The big problem, I think, is that Dany, Jon Snow and Tyrion last appeared two books ago, in A Storm of Swords--which was first published on August 8, 2000. Eleven years separates who they were then and who they are now, and because Martin has changed--you can't NOT change in eleven years--his conception of the characters has as well.

This has not benefited the characters in the least.

The overall impression I got from reading this book is that Martin didn't know where the fuck the story was going, so he kept stuffing in more and more filler to create the illusion that something interesting was happening.

I don't know how to describe this book in a way to demonstrate just how bad it is.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

what the hell was the point of Quentyn? anyone could have released the dragons. in fact it would have mademore sense if Daario had done it. or Tyrion.

[gehayi.livejournal.com]

I guess it was to kill off an utterly expendable character and--again--to give the illusion that something useful was happening.

[gehayi.livejournal.com]

Oh, BTW, I just found GRRM's justification for all the dullness. Here he is, responding to a reporter from The Atlantic magazine:

How do you make decisions about the depictions of sexual violence that you include in your writing?

Well, I'm not writing about contemporary sex—it's medieval.

There's a more general question here that doesn't just affect sex or rape, and that's this whole issue of what is gratuitous? What should be depicted? I have gotten letters over the years from readers who don't like the sex, they say it's "gratuitous." I think that word gets thrown around and what it seems to mean is "I didn't like it." This person didn't want to read it, so it's gratuitous to that person. And if I'm guilty of having gratuitous sex, then I'm also guilty of having gratuitous violence, and gratuitous feasting, and gratuitous description of clothes, and gratuitous heraldry, because very little of this is necessary to advance the plot. But my philosophy is that plot advancement is not what the experience of reading fiction is about. If all we care about is advancing the plot, why read novels? We can just read Cliffs Notes.

A novel for me is an immersive experience where I feel as if I have lived it and that I've tasted the food and experienced the sex and experienced the terror of battle. So I want all of the detail, all of the sensory things—whether it's a good experience, or a bad experience, I want to put the reader through it. To that mind, detail is necessary, showing not telling is necessary, and nothing is gratuitous.

I don't know what bugs me the most:

1) the fact that he equates sexual violence with consensual sex (seriously, why answer a question about rape like that?);

2) that he doesn't appear to know the meaning of "gratuitous";

3) that too much can be more than enough; or

4) that too many details overwhelm the reader's memory and interest, leaving behind nothing but one big blur.

It's pretty clear that he doesn't feel that any details should be omitted from his work. He must have been a joy to edit.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

plot development is not what fiction is about.

oh.

the rest of us r doin' it rong,then.

but it explains the dullness. he's just amusing himself.

[gehayi.livejournal.com]

And it's not immersive if nothing happens that you want to immerse yourself IN.

[gaedhal.livejournal.com]

That made me laugh!

Story isn't about plot. Okay, then what is it? Because
description, description, description isn't fiction --
it's advertising.

Oh, wait -- wasn't he in advertising way back when?

It's fairly clear that Martin has no clue at this point
where his "story" is going or what the real point is.
It's just vamping now -- an endless serial that will
go on without resolution until he gives up or dies! He's
practically said that!

[smurasaki.livejournal.com]

Whut?

That has to be the worst case of not answering the question I've seen outside of politics. Not only are there the problems you mention, but he didn't address the question. At all.

(Unless we're to take the answer to the question as "I want the audience to feel sexually assaulted." I mean, WTF? His answer is rather creepy, considering the actual question.)

[lareinenoire.livejournal.com]

It was extremely frustrating, especially the Tyrion and Dany chapters, which I'd been looking forward to reading. They were such a disappointment. I did enjoy Jon's arc, but every time we changed points of view, I'd wish we were back at the Wall. If the entire city of Meereen sank into quicksand, it really wouldn't bother me.

It definitely felt as though each arc was read on its own, with absolutely no thought given to how the book as a whole would fit together. So many plotlines that didn't go anywhere! So many things that could have happened but didn't. What on earth is going on with Brienne, for instance? We assume she's still alive (otherwise Jaime would presumably have noticed), but what did she say to free herself? Yes, I'm fixated, but there were so few satisfying female perspectives in this book that I have to seize on something.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

someone said to me that "lots of questions got answered" and frankly, I don't recall ANY being answered - that, what Brienne said, being one of them. grrr.

I meant to goon about cliffhangers, that they are good things,a nd we are used to them but they used to follow a chapter that already hada decent amount of action in it, not just wafflewafflewafflE CLIFFHANGER

[lareinenoire.livejournal.com]

I recall one or two, but certainly not compared to the questions that weren't answered. Although I think what frustrated me the most was Dany and Tyrion suddenly acting like idiots for the entire book. I think gehayi made a really good point about how long this one took to write and how much Martin's own ideas about the characters could have changed over that span of time, thus influencing how he wrote them and what he was doing with them.

I still hold out hope -- my husband had the same knee-jerk bad-writing-horror reaction to the fourth Dark Tower book that Stephen King wrote and that he frankly refuses to reread ever again. So it is at least possible that the series will redeem itself. But it's sad, especially after AFfC, which I like far, far better the more I reread it. But this was so very disappointing.

[paragraphs.livejournal.com]

Am feeling very heartbroken right now. He really did that to Dany? I...but...

Like I said earlier, I had started it but found it nowhere near what I was expecting to entertain me on a transatlantic flight, so switched to another book I'd grabbed. Am not sure when I will read it, now...

Was there any mention at all of little Rikan? It continues to bug me that he just kind of...disappeared.

But Dany. I had always thought EVERYTHING centered around her... Dammit. :*(

Sigh.

[gehayi.livejournal.com]

Dany and Tyrion's personalities appear to have been surgically removed. Remember the strong and determined khaleesi who walked through fire to hatch her dragons and who recognized that bloodlines weren't enough and that she needed to learn how to be a queen? Remember the proud, intelligent, self-deprecating man who used his mind and his sarcastic tongue as weapons and who was one of the most politically capable characters that we've seen?

Yeah. They don't exist any longer. The replacement Daenerys Targaryen is indecisive, confused, easily led, spends most of her time thinking about clothes, boys and marriage--I'd call her Targaryen Princess Barbie if it weren't for the fact that she's also NEGLECTING TO TRAIN HER DRAGONS. Why? Because she doesn't know how. Never mind that two books ago, she figured out how to train Drogon, Viserion and Rhaegal to respond to the word meaning "freedom." Now--well, the dragons are too big, so she's going to just shove a couple of them in a dark pit for the entire book, because that won't make them angry or anything.

And the replacement Tyrion? Well, he's still sarcastic but not nearly as bright. He spends most of his time focusing on food and the fauna of the river that he's traveling on. He's insecure, confused and--weirdly--acting as if being a jester to be ridiculed is something to be embraced. He's become obsessed with his father's last words, and treats his whole escape from Westeros as if he's not a fugitive from justice but a passenger on a pleasure cruise.

No mention made of Rickon specifically. However, most of the wildlings are not in the greatest of shape, and no one has mentioned seeing a small boy in the company of a black wolf. I'm guessing that the kid is alive, but that nothing good is happening to him...which is par for the course in this universe.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

RIckon's disappearance is something that annoys mehugely- not many Kids would own a dire wolf - like ... two boysin the entireworld.

[gehayi.livejournal.com]

Especially since it's not like you'd get the kids or the wolves mixed up. Rickon's a healthy redhead with a black wolf. Bran is not so healthy and not a redhead (it's mentioned that Sansa and Rickon got the Tully red hair), and his wolf is grey. And given that the wildlings notice non-wildlings very quickly and don't seem to trust skinchangers much...yeah, Rickon should have been spotted long ago.

[lilian-cho.livejournal.com]

Dear lord. I've only ever read most of the first book of the series*. Now I'm glad I didn't read more.

If I'm ever curious about the 'verse I'll just watch the TV series =P


* I don't have much patience for super-epic series