critique and explosions and a meme

[erastes]

Ok - this is a problem I encountered in fandom, but I never thought I would find it in professional - and I stress the term - professional fiction land.  I am of the same mind as gehayi for not understanding why historical fiction - or historical romances can't be historically accurate. Go shoot us - everyone has their pet peeves, and mine (as you will know if you've read any of my reviews - although I throw my hands up RIGHT NOW before anyone points, that I know I've made mistakes in my stories) - is historical accuracy - no-one's perfect - but I TRY.

If someone posts a piece of fiction online - e.g. in the public domain - not friends locked, then it is, as far as I'm concerned, in the public domain and is available for praise or critique.  If I put a snippet on line, and I have many times, then I'll take the rough with the smooth.  And I have.  People point out historical inaccuracies - some a lot more serious than Ms Potts did with gehayi - or typos and I was GRATEFUL.

Thing is, there are writers who don't agree.  They don't want their mistakes pointed out, they don't want people to help them improve as writers. They want the small pond of their peers to squee and praise and tell them how great they are.  This is fanbrat behaviour imho. If you are big enough and ugly enough and have the cojones to write it and put it out for people to read, then you take the critique as well as the brownnosing.

And if someone points out flaws, you swallow your tears and anger (hell, we all have them) and you say "thank you very much, I appreciate it that you took the time to read and cared enough to comment"

and on a much nicer note  technosage Interviewed me!

1. Why do you write gay fiction?

One cock good. Two Cocks BETTER.

2. Name three authors who have influenced your writing.

Hmm. Influenced is probably too strong a word. I don't ever think that I'll ever be as good as the writers who I most adore. Austen, Eliot, Pratchett, Rowling (she helped me name characters, taught me cliffhangers and taught me to write the last chapter first)

3. If you could add one book to the mandatory curriculum for being a human, what would it be?

Irony: Not just a little bit like Iron by Erastes.
Seriously though.  TIME ENOUGH FOR LOVE by R A Heinlein. Read it. Live it. 

4. Where is your favorite place you've ever traveled, and why?

I've travelled all around the world and Venice is where I want to live. It's like a water colour that someone has spilled water on. It's divine.

5. Sunrise or sunset, why?

BOTH!  My house sits East West so I get the best of both worlds

1. Leave me a comment saying anything random, like your favorite lyric to your current favorite song. Or your favorite kind of sandwich. Something random. Whatever you like.
2. I respond by asking you five personal questions so I can get to know you better.
3. You WILL update your LJ with the answers to the questions.
4. You will include this explanation and offer to ask someone else in the post.
5. When others comment asking to be asked, you will ask them five questions.

Comments

[elisa-rolle.livejournal.com]

As Italian who lives thirty km from Venice and wroks daily in Venice and has passed 4 wonderful years of college in that city, I'm very proud that you point out the Old Lady as you dream place to live. elisa

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I'd so LOVE to live there. *sigh*

Do you want questions?

Oh, snap!

[adventurat.livejournal.com]

Historical inaccuracy in all its guises was a big factor in my decision to step away away from reading Austenfic. (Haven't stopped writing it though.) Regency ladies with 2nd-millennium sensibilities, modern and American slang in the dialogue, characters called Lizzy and Darcy who bear otherwise no resemblance to Austen's creations... all these things announce to me that the author (well-intentioned as [usually] she may be) has no idea about Austen or her life or times, and sees little more in any of her works than the romance aspect.

Re: Oh, snap!

[erastes.livejournal.com]

oh yes - god. I've read a couple of those American Austen fics. *shudder*

I'm very happy you are still writing it!

Would you like questions?

[logophilos.livejournal.com]

Now you know why I will never submit anything to Torquere or ever get involved in that circle. I got bitten very early on by a couple of their prize authors pulling exactly the same tag team stunt on me in response to a solicited beta and I am *still* furious about it two years on.

Writers who can't take correction or advice? Not professionals, not worth wasting a second of my time or a penny of my money on.

I read that post of gehayi's, and the one in the comm that started it - that author was utterly out of line. So was the mod. They make their press look like a bunch of childish amateurs.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

It's shaken me, to be honest, I haven't seen bile like that since fandom. Gehayi even had an anon comment calling her foul names, which she screened and deleted.

Just CHARMING. I shall not be bothering with that little circle again.

[lee-rowan.livejournal.com]

I don't understand why one would write historical fiction without doing some homework--though I enjoy Heyer's fluffbunny Regency stuff, and she doesn't take herself too seriously. To be fair--history is not taught very well in the US, and most popular films play so fast and loose that the majority of the reading/viewing public wouldn't recognize or appreciate the effort. And most of the folks who wannabe writers don't see why they should have to bother... it's only a story, right? The problem is that so many people accept the inaccuracies as fact.

[janedavitt.livejournal.com]

Heyer took herself very seriously from the books I've read about her. She was meticulous in research and I think 'fluffbunny' is unwarranted although YMMV.

I once posted excerpts from Austen and Heyer and asked people to guess which was which with interesting results.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I always got the feeling that GH didn't take her plots to seriously, she was having FUN with the genre, and it shows. What I dislike, however, and the danger WITH historical inaccuracy, especially if a book takes off and becomes popular, is that people copy it - and the chinese whispers go down the line and everyone has the wrong facts.

[technosage.livejournal.com]

I love Venice, but I'm a Florence girl. The poignancy of rain-slicked marble, the taste of melon gelato, the family trattoria with the perfect Bolognese sauce... Ah, Italy.

I fear I'm not up for 5 more questions from everyone, but I'll take two!

Thanks for the answers. :)

[erastes.livejournal.com]

1. Why Technosage?
2. Your favourite skyline?

I haven't yet been to Florence, keep meaning to, but I want to get FIT. don't want to miss anything!

And... OMG... MELON GELATO???? *gets on plane*

[glowering.livejournal.com]

Ok then.

I've very much enjoyed listening to The Bandit Queen by the Decemberists today.

Also Regina Spektor's I Want To Sing may very well be the perfect love song.

Also I've started writing again which is so lovely.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

1. What are you writing?
2. Are you looking forward to book 7?
3. Who do you want to die?
4. Cats or Dogs?
5. What do you do when you get angry?

[janedavitt.livejournal.com]

Sorry, but I disagree. First, I make no secret of the fact that I had a run in with Gehayi myself years back and from what I saw today she's as much of a pain in the bottom as she ever was. With that admitted bias out of the way, no matter who had made those comments I'd have been rolling my eyes.

That LJ is a social gathering, a chatting place with impromptu snips and sometimes excerpts from books. It is not the kind of place you rip someone to shreds for what you perceive to be (emphasis on that as it's by no means the case that Gehayi was even correct in her criticism) errors or flaws.

It just isn't.

Other places are. That community isn't.

Gehayi was confrontational, out of step, dogmatic and rude.

Some things don't change.

[logophilos.livejournal.com]

Gehayi was confrontational, out of step, dogmatic and rude.

Part of being an professional is learning how to deal graciously with criticism, however it's delivered and however it's from. Ms Pott's was giving the standard response of any fanbrat - 'oh, but it's just meant to be fun!'. Those of us who like writing to be accurate as well as amusing, don't find it fun when the author takes the issue so lightly. If gehayi is wrong in her correction, then that should be pointed out, but attacking her for the *tone* of her correction is ridiculous.

I also wonder why you don't say this to gehayi's face. Her post is open to all comers.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Evidently critique is banned there, but how on earth was she to know? There's nothing on the info - it says it's a place where "authors and readers can relax, visit, promote, chat, whathaveyou"

Hopefully they will change it to "no critique please"

We'll have to agree to disagree about her being rude, she may have been a little blunt which she now admits to - but it is her style, she doesn't believe in toadying - (she beta's for me, and I SMART at times, but she knows what she's talking about) but I dont think it warranted the level of vitriol she got back, especially anonymous abuse and accusations of bullying. It was hardly ripping to shreds, lets me honest!

Alright then.

[bloodrebel333.livejournal.com]

Never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake.

Re: Alright then.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

1. Most unusual kiss
2. Why Blood Rebel 333?
3. What do you do during the week?
4. Cats or Dogs?
5. Natural, wax or shave?

[lyras.livejournal.com]

It's like a water colour that someone has spilled water on.

What a wonderful turn of phrase. *hearts*

[erastes.livejournal.com]

*huggles*

Do you vant kwestions?

[rwday.livejournal.com]

My god. What stupid wank. Gehayi pointed out an inaccuracy that bugged her and that's threatening behavior so the OP has to go to the mod? Please. That writer needs to grow a pair. And, as I said on Gehayi's LJ, a backbone.

Disgusting.

I'm skipping the meme because I figure you know all there is to know about me.

[lee-rowan.livejournal.com]

Summer tomatoes on good bread with lettuce, cheese, onion, soy-bacon bits, and sweet pickles. Go ahead, meme me!

[erastes.livejournal.com]

1. Who inspired you to write?
2. What's your writing routine?
3. Do you want Ioan to make more Hornblower?
4. Comfort food?
5. What book would you take to a desert island?

yes

[girluknow.livejournal.com]

Half the fun (for me, at least) of writing historical fiction is the research. If I make an error, God yes I want it pointed out as quickly as possible so I can fix it--instead of letting the reading public go on thinking I'm a lazy writer who can't be bothered to try to get it down correctly.

It wouldn't matter to me what venue I'd posted in. Finding errors in my work after it's published makes me cringe. Having others find them is even worse.

I have to wonder what sort of writer would not want or appreciate a valid critique. Certainly not one with professional aspirations. Maybe gehayi could have been a little gentler with the wording (because even kind critiques can sting), but a writer who wants to keep improving her craft will take feedback where she can get it.

And I have to agree that a lot of readers spread misconceptions gained from reading inaccurate work and this is so not good. I've seen it happen and if critiques can prevent it, I say please run wild with the critiques. Just remember that this is someone's heart you're taking apart piece by piece, so take it apart firmly but with all tenderness. (g)

Re: yes

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I was told post publication that Standish has a couple of little errors and yes I did cringe, I can hardly bear to look it at again now. the publishers said that it would be too expensive to change it, but they might do it later.

I think that as long as the writer is obviously trying hard, then litle errors are forgiveable (hopes) but someone who just copies stuff from other writers and perpertuates the crap, that's unreal.

[omnivorously.livejournal.com]

First of all, thanks for writing about how important it is to accept critiques graciously, since I just started writing fiction (finally; I enjoy paper-writing a great deal, because I am a loon and want to be a scholar, *but*), and that's a good thing to keep in mind.

I'd like to hear more about what you think of Rowling as a writer, both good and bad, if you have the time. Bc at the moment I've got an extremely poor opinion of JKR, but maybe that's just the company I've been keeping and also the fact that the HP fandom is NUTS. I'm esp curious about the importance of writing the last chapter first, since I seem to have adopted Tolkein's method for writing The Hobbit: have a first line pop into your head, and then figure out what the fuck it means, preferably fitting it into the elaborate landscape already present in your imagination. But I don't think that's a very reliable way of doing things ...

Something random. Um. Was that previous paragraph random enough? Oh, fine, something else. Usually I find sushi to be a totally satisfying meal, but not tonight. Maybe I should have had some ice cream ...

Also, I hear something creaking, and I'm trying to figure out if it's one of my housemate's beds and if so, *which* housemate. The soundproofing in this place sucks.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Hello!

I think she tells a good yarn, although the plots are stretched to incredulity at times - Goblet of Fire? What a waste of 400 pages!

I don't think she's a very good writer and by that I mean technically - or at least, she hasn't IMPROVED - and I think that's partly Anne Rice Syndrome, she's not (or so it seems to me, going from HBP's mistakes and unREAL characterisations of established characters. Go read http://hbpspork.livejournal.com/ for my opinions on THAT horror.)

Also she's not come up through the sewers, if you know what I mean, she got lucky straight away with a pretty decent book, she never had an LJ with people critiquing and feeding back, she didn't belong to a reader's group explaining to her about passive voice, split infinitives, subject confusion, all the stupid little mistakes that every writer learns as they go on - and now it seems that Bloomsbury are too frightened to say "Jo, that's an awkward sentence" or "Jo, that spell is completely different from what it was in book 2" - or perhaps they DO but she doesn't listen, or care.

I won't listen to people who say "Oh but it's just a kid' book" because so is Narnia, so is the Hobbit, so is His Dark Materials (which I found quite hard going at times!!)

I copied JKR's idea of writing the last chapter first because I really didn't know what I was doing, and that seemed sensible. Now it's a bit of habit - and it's a safety net - I know where I'm going - and i see my writerly friends flailing going "I don't know how I'm going to tie this all up!!"

Anyway, I'm always happy to ramble on, so next be afraid to ask me anything.

1. Favourite icecream?
2. Are you looking forward to book 7?
3. Who do you want to die in it?
4. What are you writing now?
5. Do you listen to music when writing? what?

[ejab62.livejournal.com]

You know, I think it doesn't matter if someone is a professional or not - some people simply can't take critique. It's their personality. Yes, you'd think a professional would, at some point, be somewhat grateful for it but you can't take the person out of the writer. If you know what I mean. It says a lot about them as a human.

You want something random? How about Sunday - I'm going to visit my sister. Haven't seen her in over four years and actually don't know how I feel about it...

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I have to agree, there were people in that critique group I was on, the historical one, who were there to be critted (obvoiusly) but then got all defensive and argumentative when you did!!!

HOpe it all goes well with your sister.

1. What's your favourite place to sit and think?
2. Are you looking forward to Book 7?
3. Do you think she'll cave in and write more?
4. Do you have any pets?
5. What about writing pisses you off most?